[00:00] Travis Macy: Life is a team sport, and that means we can all lead and we can all follow. We can all give help and accept help. And you also, you get to pick your team. And I was really lucky that Jim harsher was on my team that day. And he had this insight into like, Hey, you know, what’s best for my buddy here. So thanks Jim. I appreciate it.

[00:20] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Welcome to another episode of Success Through Failure. This is your host, Jim Harshaw, Jr. and today I’m bringing you Travis Macy. Travis is a speaker, author, and coach, and a professional endurance athlete. He has finished over 120 ultra endurance events in 17 countries. I mean, this guy is a total badass.

[00:43] He is the author of the ultra mindset in endurance champions, eight core principles for success in business. In life. He is the winner of the lead man series, which is this epic endurance event that consists of a trail running marathon, a 50 mile mountain bike race, the Leadville 100 mountain bike race.

[01:07] These are all on like separate weekends, a 10 K road run and the Leadville 100. Run, all of this takes place above 10,000 feet in the Rocky mountains. Travis is absolutely incredible. He’s become a friend of mine. He actually, we met when he was a client of mine and we’ve become friends and I’ve been on his podcast.

[01:28] He’s been on my podcast. We are publishing this episode as a joint episode is going to air on his show and on the success or failure podcast is you’re listening to right now. We wanted to bring you an episode about risk risks that I’ve taken, that he’s taken ones that have worked out ones that have not worked out, because I know that you have risks in your life that you’re thinking about that you’re afraid of.

[01:50] We’re going to address those things. Head on. Let’s get into my conversation. Travis Macy here we are back with the one and only Travis Macy. How you doing Travis,

[02:00] Jim? I’m doing well, man. It’s awesome to be here with you. You know, you’re kinda one of those friends and sort of chosen colleagues of mine and the, the close inner circle.

[02:12] And I always enjoy talking and sharing business ideas and just. Catching up on personal things and supporting each other. And the ed I’m honored that we get to do this, uh, kinda more in the public sphere here. So yeah, just pumped to be here with you in the audience.

[02:26] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah. Likewise. And so we are recording this episode as an episode for your show and for my show for the Travis Macy show.

[02:33] And for success or failure, it’s going to publish on both of our platforms, which is pretty cool. So for listeners, who’ve been listening to my show for a while, or even Travis, the show I interviewed Travis way back in episode 52. This was like years ago, I went back and looked at that number and I don’t even remember how we got connected, but yeah.

[02:53] There are certain guests that I just feel like I connect with. And Travis, you probably feel the same way. I get guests on the show who a lot of them I’ve never met them before. And some of them, I end up stay connected with others. I don’t, but Travis, you and I have stayed connected. And we actually got the workout.

[03:08] This. You know, passing through Colorado, got to meet your wife and your daughter. Didn’t get to meet your son, but met your dogs, went for a run with you. You actually went really, really easy on me. So I appreciate that. So it was great to meet you, man. Yeah. Yeah, it was good.

[03:23] And I do remember we initially connected, I think it was probably 2015 or 16 and I decided to take your.

[03:30] Course, and I had a great experience and really enjoyed you and, and your teachings and connecting with that community. And just to say that, you know, Hey, here’s the guy we can stay in touch with. And, and I was also realizing at that time that I’d become, self-employed what maybe two or three years prior.

[03:49] And I liked a lot of it, but I was also identifying some, some isolation and just not as much connection professionally with other people. And, and I kind of, yeah. Decision of, Hey, I get to choose my colleagues and, you know, I, I, I met, I made a list and, you know, you were one of the top people on it. And so it’s been really good to, you know, have not only that friendly relationship, but a professional relationship as well.

[04:13] So yeah, I’m glad to be back into the folks who are listening, you know, on my platform. I think that if you like, uh, the. Podcast stuff that my dad and I do most weeks, I think you’re going to like gym stuff too. Cause it’s similar stuff. It’s a, it’s all about getting better at being the best you can be.

[04:30] And Jim has, I mean, hundreds of episodes now, a lot of big name guests and just really good stuff. So you’re doing an awesome guy. Yeah,

[04:38] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: well, likewise, uh, and I forgot that that was the actual first interaction was when you joined the reveal, your path program. I was thinking there was something before that, but that was, that was it.

[04:46] I do remember that now. And for listeners of success or failure? Absolutely. You’ll love Travis’s show. I mean, Travis. Professional endurance athlete and coach and an author, and he’s just done absurd things and had extreme, absurd experiences. Uh, I’ve been lucky enough to have Travis come and actually speak to my inner circle group a couple of times, which is really cool.

[05:08] If you’re into doing hard things and experiencing the world and the ups and downs of taking risks and doing hard things and navigating just life, whether you’re a professional athlete or a professional, anything else, and you’re dealing with challenges like Travis shares a lot on his show with his father’s dealing with Alzheimer’s and you know, his dad’s on the.

[05:32] A lot, and it’s really cool to just live that experience with Travis. So anyway, absolutely check out the Travis Macy show. And I mentioned Ray. Risk is something that Travis and I have talked about a lot over the years when we just talk personally on our conversations about risks that we might take or thinking about taking, we bounce ideas off of each other.

[05:53] And that’s what we want to talk about today because you, as the listener are sitting there managing through your life, the ups and downs of it, and you have hopes and goals and wishes and dreams and there’s risk involved and there’s risk involved in. My life in the things that have gotten me to this point there’s risks there involved in Travis’s life and what has gotten him to his level of world-class success.

[06:17] And what we want to do is we’re going to share some risks that each of us have taken that have turned out poorly, turned out, not the way we intended in the lessons that we have taken from those. And then also share some risks that we’ve taken that have worked out for the better. So, Travis, what do you have that.

[06:34] This topic of risk. I think about it a lot. And you know, sometimes it’s, it’s a actual physical risk in, in a sport that I’m doing, or even in, uh, now more and more sports that I’m doing with my own kids and with other kids, you know, downhill skiing, mountain biking, whitewater kayaking, we can all agree.

[06:51] There’s a level of risk in that. I think a lot about many of the things we do. Daily where there’s a huge risk, but we don’t even think about it because it’s so normal. So driving a car, right. I mean, that’s a highly risky thing to do, but we all do it all the time. And we try to mitigate the risks too, of course, by wearing a seatbelt and driving safely and that kind of stuff.

[07:11] But it’s still very, very dangerous. One thing I often think about with risks is. The role of, like you said, navigating uncertainty. I think that one thing all of us have realized in the last couple of years with. The global pandemic is just, life is a lot more out of control and uncertain than we may have hoped.

[07:36] My opinion is a lot of adults, especially as we age and become maybe more set in our ways. We seek more and more, a sense of control. And we like to think that, okay, I’ve got everything dialed in, right. I’m in control of my finances and my job and you know, my kids and my family and all that kind of stuff.

[07:57] And, you know, again, my opinion is it turns out like as much as we try to control it, a lot of it really is just uncertain and you know, really my dad’s Alzheimer’s journey has. For me, it brought that to the forefront. Here’s a unique and mysterious disease where you don’t know how fast it’s going to progress or how it’s going to impact a, a given person or, or what’s going to happen, you know, embracing and accepting that uncertainty is a huge piece of it.

[08:23] And to bring it back to risk. I think a lot of times we tend to look at what are the risks of trying something, you know, something that we want, you know, a step towards a, let’s say a goal or an experience. But we don’t look as much at what are the risks of not going for it. And that’s something I would encourage listeners to do.

[08:45] And we can bring that out in examples may make sure you’re looking at the risk of not going for something that’s important to you. And what’s that going to look like down the road? So anyway, why don’t you kick it off, Jim, give us one of your failures and what’d you learn?

[08:58] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah. So when I was going through sort of preparing for this, uh, I wasn’t even thinking about some of the physical risks that I’ve taken, not nearly this, some of the stuff you’ve done.

[09:08] I can’t wait to hear about yours, but I’ve been a whitewater kayaker, you know, kayaked class five world-class whitewater and jumped out of planes and rock climbing and et cetera. But the first one that I thought of was really a risk I took when I was division one head wrestling coach, and there’s not that many division, one head wrestling, coaching jobs out there.

[09:26] It was at slippery rock university and I was young and I had this great job and I was an up and coming coach. And I was there for a few years when I got approached for an opportunity to come back to my Alma mater the university of Virginia as an assistant coach, it was interestingly, a donor funded.

[09:46] Unique position, um, would have given me a big raise and a really unique opportunity. And I jumped on it. It was a really scary, hard thing to do because I had gotten a really good job close to where I grew up division one, head, coaching, job, all this stuff. And I was leaving this to take this risk for the.

[10:08] Newly created position funded essentially by one guy. And I didn’t know what I was getting into. And when I got to Charlottesville, I realized things were a mess, not in the wrestling program, but in this sort of outside entity that was connected to the program sort of unofficially. And the person who was reporting directly to me was a world-class either level coach.

[10:31] I mean, top, top coach and things. Weren’t what they. And three years later and do a five-year sort of verbal commitment. The rug got pulled out from underneath of me and all of us and the funding went away because of this one, coach had done some things that were not above board and it was like, oh, you know, the rug got pulled out and I was left, standing there going, okay, now I’ve got a young family, how do we manage this?

[11:00] And so it was a risk that. Did not work out well, three years later, I’m out of a job. Well,

[11:08] yeah, quite a story. One thing that comes to mind for me, I know personally throughout my life, I’ve really struggled with decision-making, you know, kind of this temptation or drive to have my cake and eat it too. And you know, not wanting to give up either of the choices and, you know, we, we learn that often.

[11:25] You have to like, that’s, that’s just life. Uh, but another thing I’ve learned. We never, ever crystal ball. Right. Uh, you know, it’s easy to look back and say, oh, I should’ve gone the other way, but we don’t know in one time, I didn’t know. So this is more recent, my big failure that I’d like to report on. And maybe, maybe it’s a failure or maybe it’s not, but this is just for me in the last boy in the last year here.

[11:49] So to go back a little bit in 2015, um, I was able to. Put out my first book and, you know, so went through the whole process. Writing a book is hard. It takes forever and ever the business side is really hard to get a publisher, you know, to get an agent and then get a publisher. And it’s just, there’s a ton of work that went into it, but I decided, uh, about five years later, let’s do this again.

[12:11] And this one was kind of more, or is really more of a, of a team effort. Me and my dad and another co-writer were working with. So basically we, we spent, uh, probably a solid year, um, working on a book proposal, which is kind of a document that, uh, you know, you put out alongside a literary agent, um, put it out to prospective publishers and they look at it and they say, okay, you know, we want.

[12:37] Make the book and here’s what we’ll offer for it. So anyway, we spent, again, at least a year working on this thing, our agent puts it out and just about immediately, we got an offer and it was an offer from my previous publisher on, on that first book that was encouraging. And I think they, you know, we had enjoyed working together, but when we looked at the number that they were offering, we kind of said collectively as a team, We think we can get a lot more.

[13:05] And this was kind of the, the period shortly after the eco challenge, adventure race had begun airing on Amazon and there’s kind of a lot of press going on and we, and we just, we felt some momentum and, and again, as it, as a whole team, we said, we said, oh, this is a great offer, but we think we can. More.

[13:23] And so I instructed our agent take and you come back to that publisher and, you know, ask them for a couple of weeks or something. Let’s see if, see if any other offers come in. And so she, you know, again, our agent did a great job negotiating this situation and. Anyway to make a long story short, no other offers came in.

[13:42] And when we came back to that publisher and said, Hey, let’s do this. They said, Nope, you should have said yes when the offer was on the table. So we went from, you know, again, here’s a good publisher people I liked working with, you know, a good way more than we were offered for the first book, but it’s gone.

[14:01] Nothing, no offer. And so we’re back. Square zero. And by that time, our agent has shopped around this product kind of, you know, to the, a list of publishers, the bigger companies who probably have more money and stuff. And anyway, they had all said no, so we’re, we’re back to square one. And thankfully our agent was interested in persevering.

[14:23] We went back to the drawing board, we treat the proposal and, and. You know, really another, I don’t know. It probably turned out to be almost another year of shopping this thing around until we finally got an offer from another publisher this time, a smaller one and a much, much, much smaller dollar amount, but we got the deal and it’s going through now.

[14:46] You know, again, oftentimes we think something is a failure or we think, oh, there was a mistake and maybe it wasn’t, maybe it wasn’t, you know, at this point now where, you know, I’m well into the process with the new publisher, we’ve got an on shelf date for next spring. You know, the manuscript’s done, we’re working on the design and the marketing.

[15:06] It feels really good. And even though the dollar amount is far smaller, I’m actually realizing this publishing company. It’s a very small company, which means I get to work very closely with the editor in the marketing person and they have far fewer projects. So we’re like, we’re really going at it. And I’m pretty pumped.

[15:25] You know, I think that maybe the book may generate a bigger impact because we’re really able to, you know, get behind it again. And even though it’s a smaller company, I think they actually have, may have more personal resource to put into it. So we’ll see. But one lesson learned is be grateful, you know, w when something’s on the table, and again, you don’t have that crystal ball, but be grateful and just, you know, w we’re we’re all, I think, susceptible at times to the ego and to the, you know, oh, I could get more money.

[15:56] It turns out we could, we could not get. You know,

[16:00] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: now we know, but sometimes that’s, that’s what it takes. I mean, to be honest for the listeners, it’s like, that’s kinda why Travis is world-class at what he does because. He does swing for the fences. He does go for it. He does try hard things. He doesn’t settle.

[16:14] And in this case, you know, you didn’t want to settle and you thought you could get more. And in this case you didn’t, but it is this mindset of aiming high shooting for the top that sometimes can cost you, right. There’s not a perfect yellow brick road to the top that doesn’t have failures and setbacks and.

[16:33] Regrets, if you even call it that, I don’t know if that would be a regret. It’s just kinda like, oh, okay. Well I made a mistake there, but that’s also the mindset that the guy to where you’re at today.

[16:42] Yeah, I think so. And I also think, you know, sometimes we look at, uh, at risk and we think, oh my gosh, if I fail all will be lost, you know?

[16:51] And, and I’ll be at ground zero. And as it turns out, usually. You’re not, you know, in this case, like, okay. Getting to the actual, you know, book took far longer and, and generated a lot less profit up front. What happens in the long-term is yet to be determined.

[17:09] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: I can’t wait till the book comes out. No

[17:11] thanks, man.

[17:12] Yeah. I’m excited to, we can talk about it more maybe at that time, but, uh, what about you? You got another either failure or, or success that you’d like to see. Yeah, I’ll

[17:21] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: share another failure. And to be honest, it leads out of that last story where I kind of left off saying, you know, I was standing there without a job and a young family.

[17:30] And so I started a business, which was kind of the lining there. It was like starting this new business and sort of the, the lesson that I learned from that first experience was. Be thankful for what you have, like you said, and I’m thankful in hindsight, looking back at what I did have this new experience, first time, really managing adults.

[17:51] I was managing adults prior to that when I was at slippery rock as the head coach, but I had a very small staff and mostly managing 18 to 22 year old young men, but this was a chance to manage some very high level people. And. Was the impetus for me starting my first business. And so I started this first business and again, th that’s just a risk, right?

[18:13] I applied for jobs and gotten a job somewhere, but I’m like, you’re not I’m entrepreneurial. I want to start a business. I always have. So I started a business, a window cleaning and power washing business, and grew that thing over the next few years to 10 employees, three crews on the road. I was managing it from a home office and had a full-time assistant, running things for the most part and had a successful business.

[18:38] And I was going to sell. And decided I got approached by somebody who wanted to partner in it. And this particular gentleman had an infrastructure in place where it was going to, they’re going to be a lot of cost savings. But what I didn’t realize is that. Not everybody is who you think they are. This is sort of the same lesson that I took from the first one, right.

[19:04] There were a couple of interactions that we had early on in this business partnership that should have been red flags for me, long story short, it didn’t work out. I mean, there’s some, you know, a messy story behind it that I probably can’t share a whole lot of detail of just because this person is still out there in business and it got ugly, man.

[19:21] It got ugly. I was warned by. A mentor and an accountant of mine about partnerships and how to go about them. This one didn’t turn out well, here’s the silver lining. Here’s what I took from that is I’m in a new business partnership right now. I got to partner with an amazing world-class guru. I call him a guru without a following because he doesn’t have social media, but he’s one of the best management consultants, leadership development people in the United States, maybe in the world.

[19:50] But that experience. Uh, in that partnership gone wrong has informed this partnership, which has been absolutely amazing to this point. So both of those failures, both of those risks, I should say that just didn’t turn out. Well, the way I would have liked them to have turned out, like in hindsight, I’m so thankful for those.

[20:09] In the moment I would have chosen the opposite path, but had I gone down the opposite path, I wouldn’t be here right now, talking to you with these valuable lessons that I get to share with my executive coaching clients, with my audience on my podcasts. These are valuable experiences. These are the lows, the risks that didn’t turn out well, that are absolutely a critical part of the value that I bring to the.

[20:33] Quick interruption. Hey, if you like what you’re hearing, be sure to get the notes, quotes and links in the action plan from this episode, just go to JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. That’s JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. To get your free copy of the action plan. Now back to the show.

[20:51] Nice. Good one, Jim, and congrats to you on that, on that recent partnership, I’m excited to see what you guys do together.

[20:57] And as an aside, a former window cleaner right here, man, that was high school and college. Uh, my, my summer job, I tell you what to the listeners out there. If you see those men and women out there cleaning windows and you think it looks simple, it is not simple. There is a true art to get in that room and in the squeegee and it takes.

[21:18] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: It does it, and it’s like a Zen a thing. I remember like when I first started out, like I was out there on the ladder on the job in the first few months. And it’s kind of like you get into this Zen state, right. It’s, it’s kind of, you get into the zone and it’s kind of an enjoyable.

[21:34] Man for me as a high school kid, it was a good summer job.

[21:37] Cause I, uh, you know, I grew up in a, in a small town outside of Denver. And so, you know, as a 16 year old, I’m driving into the, you know, the big city of Denver and I’m navigating around as a map and learning to read addresses and my boss, uh, unfortunately it wasn’t you, but on the good side, it was, uh, it was Westminster.

[21:55] Wes man. He was the meanest looking old Harley guy who in fact is the nicest guy you’ve ever known. Um, my first boss and one of the best I ever had. So yeah. Anyway, a big risk that turned out well for me. And I wanted to tell this story, Jim, because you, you play. A key role. I don’t even know if you, you know, but you’ve played a big role in whether it’s your clients or your listeners, just helping people go for it.

[22:20] And this was a case where he really helped me go for it and help me see the value of something. So the time was 2018. We had learned that this eco challenge, adventure race, uh, that would become the world’s toughest race. It was coming back. It had been a big race in the late nineties and early two thousands.

[22:36] And my dad had done all those previous eco challenges. I had not done them cause that was. You know, a high school and college student at the time, but you know, after those early ECOS fizzled out, I went on to become an adventurer. So I was doing similar races around the world, but never the eco challenge itself.

[22:53] So anyway, when we heard he was coming back, it was big news and there was a lot of excitement in the, in the little world of, uh, of adventure racing. So. We started applying for the race and dad was accepted to do the race with his old buddies. He and his buddies. They’re all over 65. They’re going to go out and do the race together.

[23:10] Team, stray dogs. They were the

[23:12] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: OGs of adventure racing. These guys. Yeah.

[23:15] Some of the OGs for sure. They became known in the sport because they just kept going. So anyway, they were going to do it. And then I was going to do it, um, with a different team, you know, a more competitive, uh, sort of team and.

[23:27] Sometime during that time, or while we’re kind of looking ahead to this race, dad gets diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and you know, it was a huge blow, you know, hits you like a ton of bricks. And I mean, I could go on and on about that, but, you know, he’s still a really wanted to do the race and it was something that was really important to him.

[23:45] And I, and I also realized through. Soul searching, you know, even more than, uh, doing this race to try to win. I want to do this race with my dad. I want to have an experience, you know, together doing something that we love. So we, we decided, you know, to kind of shift the teams. Now dad’s on, on my team, has his old buddies are still doing the race, you know, on a, on a separate team.

[24:08] And as the months progressed, you know, and, and the Alzheimer’s condition progressed a little bit. And I started actually thinking about. This race, which, you know, basically involves up to 10 days of nonstop all day long and overnight racing in the jungles of Fiji, you know, on your feet on mountain bike, paddling canoes, battling stand-up paddleboards, navigating with map and compass, you know, fixed ropes, canyoneering, all, all this stuff.

[24:34] I mean, stuff that I, I love doing and I’ve done a lot. My dad’s done. A ton of it, but he’s also, you know, 65 and has Alzheimer’s and there’s, we have no idea what’s going to happen with Alzheimer’s. Would you get out in the jungle and Fiji, you know, and you’re not eating very good or sleeping that much. I mean, there’s a lot of uncertainty and Jim, I was having severe anxiety about it.

[24:54] You know, I, I was looking at again, the risks of this race and I was focused primarily. On the negative risks of what could happen out there. Again, could there be an accident like, you know, my dad’s going to be off of, you know, his keto diet and that, you know, we’re going to be less consistent with supplements and medications and you know, all that stuff what’s going to happen.

[25:19] And those. Real worries. And I found myself just trapped by them basically. And, uh, I remember Jim, I had a conversation with you. I remember it clearly because I was walking my dogs on the street by my house. I can just picture it. And I was telling you about this and you know, basically Jim, you said like, Travis, you gotta go for this, like, man, this is the eco challenge with your dad and you’re not going to get to do this again.

[25:45] Right. Your dad’s pumped. You’re pumped, like. You got to go for this and it, Jim, it flipped a switch for me of like, okay, yes, there’s these risks of, you know, going towards the race. If we just throw in the towel and don’t do this thing, that’s really important to us. And we can share with dad’s grandkids and maybe inspire some other people.

[26:07] Like there’s a big. To that, to not going for something that is, you know, that your journey, that’s your, you know, think of the book, the Alchemist, you know, he calls it your personal legend, man. If you’re on your personal legend, then you’re not going for it. For some reason, there is a big risk to. You know, so thankfully we, we went for it and, you know, again, there was a lot of uncertainty.

[26:30] We, we realized, um, probably the best way to navigate things for our team was if we could sleep a lot every night, the dad was able to stay engaged pretty well. You know, we had some super scary moments when one time when he got really disoriented and kind of angry and didn’t know what was. Going on and that kind of stuff, but we were able to manage it, you know, and we, and we had a team.

[26:50] I mean, it was me and dad and our teammates, uh, Shane and Denelle and Andrew, and we did it together and it was, it was awesome. It is people maybe saw on TV, like we didn’t finish the race and that was fine, but we got seven days of an incredible journey. And just something, again, stories we can tell the grandkids and away for those little kids to see grandpa.

[27:11] You know, and we don’t know what’s coming, but they, man, they get to see here’s the story of grandpa at his best. And that’s how they’re going to remember him.

[27:19] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: And I remember that conversation, clearly child, I was sitting in my car when we had that conversation. I do very clearly remember that conversation.

[27:26] And it’s one thing for me to be sitting in my comfy cozy card, you know, saying you should go for it and, and, and a whole other thing to actually do it. And man kudos for you to take that risk and go for it. And what an experience for the list. The cool thing about that story that Travis just told about.

[27:44] You can go watch it. You can watch it. It was all put on television, go to the, you, if you have Amazon prime, you can watch the eco challenge. It’s a series. And it’s a fascinating story about all of the teams, but this team with Travis and his father is featured quite a bit. And, uh, just an incredible, incredible, inspiring story.

[28:04] And we’re going to get to read it in a book too. Whenever that book.

[28:08] Yeah. Well, thanks man. And, and seriously, Jim, I mean, thank you for, for your friendship and support. And maybe a lesson to listeners is life is a team sport, and that means we can all lead. We can all follow, we can all give help and accept help.

[28:21] And you also, you get to pick your team. And I was really lucky that Jim Harshaw was on my team that day. And he had this insight in the like, Hey, you know, what’s best for my buddy here. So thanks Jeremy.

[28:32] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah, you’re welcome Travis. And I mean, there’s been so many times we’ve had those powerful conversations that have influenced me as well.

[28:38] And I just wrote this down. As we’re talking here, you get to pick your team, you get to pick your team, like when you’re in sports, like in high school or college or whatever, you don’t get to pick your team. But now, now you do, you get to pick your team. So who are you choosing to have on your team? And part of my coaching program, the reveal your path is, you know, Travis is the environment of excellence.

[28:57] And part of that is your team who are the people you’re surrounding yourself with. Right. It’s not just your friends and your mentors, but also. Financial advisor and your doctor and your therapist or counselor, you’ve got to really intentionally pick those people because guess what? By default, your team’s going to be average.

[29:17] That’s just how it works. Right? You go out into the world, the highs and the lows and people performing at a high level and a low level and somewhere in between and people who encourage you and don’t encourage you. Like there’s an average. But you get to pick the ones that you spend the most time with.

[29:30] So that’s a big lesson for me. I wrote that one down. Travis. Thank you. Yeah.

[29:34] How about you Jimmy? Yeah. Another either failure or success. We could go on for days about this, but you know, what else is on your mind?

[29:40] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: We talk about, as you mentioned in the failures, the failures have all been valuable experiences for me and that’s not just something that’s nice to say.

[29:47] Cause we’re on a podcast and we want to kind of put a sugar coating on it. No, it’s like the truth is it’s. They hurt. I was scared. There was anxiety. There was fear. There was conflict between my wife and I, when the money went away and like that stuff all happened. But I’m thankful now in hindsight, looking back at it for whatever it is, are you the listener going through right now?

[30:09] There will be a time when you can look back. If you choose to approach this the right way, if you choose to continue to put one foot in front of another, you will get through this and this experience will be valuable for you. I promise you. And so for me, a risk that I took that worked out was. I was graduating from college.

[30:29] I had just become a division one. All-American I get invited to live and train at the Olympic training center. I get to at least two job offers to be an assistant coach. One at the Naval academy, one at the university of Pennsylvania. And there were some others I was talking to, but I had this other thing pulling at me this adventure.

[30:47] And a friend of mine who had graduated a couple of years prior to me, he was a national champion soccer player at the university of Virginia. He was down in Guatemala, living in the jungles at a meditation center on this crazy adventure. And he’s like, you should come down gym long story short, decided that I was going to take that next step, put competitive wrestling behind me, at least for now put coaching aside for now and take a risk because those opportunities.

[31:14] Well, very likely be gone if you choose this other path. And I chose the path of adventure and I bought a one-way ticket to Houston, took a bus to the border of Mexico and had a backpack. And about three months and an open-ended ticket, my goal was to get to Guatemala at some point and meet up with my buddy.

[31:34] And I. You know, I started that adventure that evening at once. I got to the border of Texas Brownsville, Texas Watertown jumped into a taxi, drove across the border, and now I’m in Mexico. And no one really knew where I was. I had some cash, some credit cards, some travelers checks back when the, I don’t even know if those are still a thing.

[31:57] I think they are out there somewhere. And I booked the hotel room there and didn’t have a lock on it. I had a real rubber doorstopper it’s to keep my door shut as best I could. And that was the beginning of a grand grand adventure that maybe I need to do a whole episode on sometime, but it involved like.

[32:15] No experiences with John and medicine, men and vigilantes in the middle of the night in Honduras and just some wild, crazy stuff. Scuba diving at night in the ocean and just some amazing adventures. And I actually met a girl. Who gave me not her number, but the phone number of a company back in America that leads adventure, camping tours.

[32:39] And I scribbled it down in my journal. One night I bumped into this girl and Guatemala, she’s an American girl, and I wish I had a way to contact her now and say thank you. Because when I got back to the states, after this trip was over, I worked for a couple of months. As a teacher realized I still have adventure in my soul.

[32:55] I needed to get back out there. I called this company and got a job leading adventure, camping tours. And I met my. And so this is one of these risks that I took where I didn’t know it was going to happen. I mean, my mom was terrified that I wasn’t going to come home. And, and there were probably some moments where there was a, a little bit of an elevated risk of that happening.

[33:15] But I went on this grand adventure, said no to some great job opportunities and to train at the Olympic training center. And I went on this adventure and this adventure led me to eventually getting this job. I had a great job that he could venture camping tours for one, but I met my wife. And so this was a risk and you, you don’t know where they’re going to lead.

[33:36] You don’t know where the path is going to lead. And Steve jobs says you can’t connect the dots in your life looking forward, but you can only connect them looking backwards. And I couldn’t see that, you know, Hey, if I go to Mexico and in central America, I’m going to, you know, it’s going to lead me to meeting my wife.

[33:50] Eventually you can’t connect the dots like that, but this was a risk I took and it worked out for. So that’s another one of mine, Java. So this is a super fun adventure, but how about you? What’s another risk that you’ve taken to that worked out.

[34:01] Yeah, man. Cool story. I love it too. You might just think of back on say a real brief.

[34:06] I kind of did the same thing. Right? When I graduated college, I got a job offer, um, to start teaching high school and I could either take that job. Or what I want to do is become a professional adventure racer. And it is, is that a, you know, is that a real thing? Can you make money, adventure racing, uh, you know, kind of, I didn’t have a sponsorship, but I, I thought I could and I believed in myself more or less.

[34:31] I worked really hard at that and yeah. Was able to convince, uh, you know, the ski company, spider to pay me and my teammates to be adventure racers. And I could make enough money as a, you know, a single young guy to do it. And then my girlfriend at the time, and now I Fe me and I packed up and went to New Zealand for almost a year.

[34:48] And yeah, I mean, it was, it was fantastic. And I also learned, you know, lo and behold, that sponsorship fizzled out the company got different marketing objectives. Um, and we were working to stay in New Zealand forever anyway. So. We came back and I applied to that same school and got offered a job again.

[35:05] And another thing I’ve learned is sometimes you go for something, especially I think for a lot of people, maybe you’re thinking about going self-employed or, you know, building up your own thing that you really believe in. You know, my thought is, is it usually if you, if you quit a job or leave something.

[35:22] If you need to come back to it later, you probably can’t. And maybe it’s not the same company. Maybe it’s not the exact same position, but you know, if whatever a year or two or five from now, you want to come back to what you were doing, which is fine. You’re, you’re allowed to re decide, or maybe you’re forced to read aside because you know, things weren’t working out financially or whatever, but you probably can.

[35:44] I think sometimes people, they think, oh, if I leave this, you know, I can never, never come back to it all as luck. I don’t know, that’s a, you know, back to those conversations, Jim, I mean, you, you were for many years building a coaching business on the side of more traditional employment and, you know, you, you took the job, but it worked out.

[36:02] But if it didn’t, you could have gone back, you know? Yeah, you’re

[36:05] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: right. And that’s, so that’s another one and I’ll just share that real quickly. So these other experiences that I talked about where. I had one successful business that I’d built from scratch and the partnership didn’t go well, but building it on my own was it was successful.

[36:18] And then I had another business later. It was a technology company that failed, but all of these experiences, you put them together and they positioned me even better to create success in this latest risk, which was quitting. My job. Great job, six figure job, you know, dream job, really doing what I loved working at the university of Virginia as a major gift fundraiser and, you know, wining and dining, the, the, the rich people who are giving us money.

[36:44] And it was such a fun, enjoyable job for, especially for somebody who was an athlete there, student athlete there. But I quit. I gave that up. To do this. And the story is still being written, but here we are almost three years into it. And ah, man, it could be happier, but it was a, it was a risk, it was scary.

[37:01] I’ve got four kids and a wife and it’s like an, a mortgage and all of that. And that was a risk, but it was a risk worth taking, even if it didn’t fail. And you talk about Travis, the opportunity cost of not taking, even if it didn’t work out, I wouldn’t have been able to sleep at night knowing that what.

[37:19] Yep. Yeah. Wait, maybe the final one. I share that again, but I think it was a success, but sometimes we, you know, again, back to, like you said, you, you got a family. I do too. I mean, I have two kids and a wife and, you know, the usual again, mortgage that kind of stuff in, in sometimes we think, oh, because of those things.

[37:35] We can’t change things. We can’t go for something we want. And a couple of years ago, my wife and I identified like, okay, we’re, we’re living in a great place. This, uh, evergreen, Colorado. And it was in USA today as is like the most desirable town to live in, in America or something. And I had lived there my entire life.

[37:53] And, you know, I dunno if I was getting old and salty and jaded or if, uh, you know, if I just didn’t like that, you know, it’s getting more built up, more crowded. Basically I was, I was ready for a change. And so is Amy. So we identified a different town here in Colorado. Salita a small, smaller, more rural, you know, kind of the small community type field that I grew up in.

[38:13] And we said, well, maybe let’s, let’s go for this. So we, you know, started looking at houses is, is people do, uh, we found ourselves under contract to buy a house in February, 2020. And you know, as most listeners can remember a couple of weeks after that, you know, basically the world. Shuts down and, you know, there’s, there’s all kinds of uncertainty and, and, uh, you know, my, I make most of my income coaching, adult endurance athletes, people who are training for, you know, ultra running races and mountain biking, adventure racing, that kind of stuff.

[38:46] And so. Business took a huge hit overnight because all the events were canceled. And many of my clients, you know, they had huge uncertainties on their income. So anyway, the coaching was gone. Um, my wife is also self-employed so her business was now uncertain and we had this contract to buy a house. And at that moment, buying a house.

[39:08] Looking back. It was, it was fascinating because it’s like, oh, can you buy a house? Can you sell a house? Can you have showings in a house? Can you rent a moving truck? No one knew what was COVID. How is it transferred? All that stuff. So, anyway, we kicked the closing down the road, you know, a couple of times extend the closing and, you know, finally it, it was, Hey, so we had done that twice and you know, it basically became like either we got to go for this amidst, a lot of uncertainty of how.

[39:37] Work out and whether or not we can even sell a house, which we had to do in order to move, or we just got to pack up and kind of in the dream, at least for now. And so anyway, we just said, let’s, let’s go for it. We don’t know what’s going to happen, how it’s going to work out. We know it’s going to be, I mean, moving as anyone who’s ever moved knows, especially when.

[39:55] Kids. It’s always so stressful, but, but we went for it and you know, here we are, two years later, we were able to sell the other house. We love the place we’re living in and we haven’t looked back. But I think again, you know, just because you’re at a certain point in life or you have kids or whatever, it doesn’t mean you.

[40:14] Can’t stop going for things that, that are gonna make your life look more like what you hope for. And it’s never going to be perfect. And there’s always going to be hard things about it, but you’re in control and, and life’s not that long. So if there’s something you want to go for, I think figuring out a way to do it, or at least, you know, do it in some way, shape or form.

[40:34] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah. I look at how Travis lives his life. The road less traveled, you know, he’s, he’s an example of, of taking risks and living life on your own terms. And, and you can do that, right. Look for reasons why you can, not reasons why you can’t. There are plenty of reasons why you can’t look for the reasons. That you can, and I think that’s, uh, that’s the big takeaway for this episode.

[40:57] Yeah, we gotta do it again.

[40:59] Yeah. It was fun. Thanks. Thanks. I am so happy to share this with my listeners. I hope that they check out your podcast because it’s good stuff. And you know, if anyone’s out there looking for executive coaching, personal coaching, um, you know, the leadership development stuff that you guys are doing, it’s really good.

[41:17] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah. And likewise for Travis, from my listeners, check out the Travis Macy show, subscribe to it, give it a rating and review. If you have any interest in, in training, if you’re, whether you’re trying to get from the couch to running a 5k, or you’re trying to go from marathon to ultra marathon or frigging eco challenge level type of race, uh, there’s no better person to talk to.

[41:39] And Travis, so Travis, thank you. Cool. Thanks, Jim.

[41:44] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Thanks for listening. If you want to apply these principles into your life, let’s talk. You can see the limited spaces that are open on my calendar at JimHarshawJr.com/APPLY where you can sign up for a free one-time coaching call directly with me.

[41:59] And don’t forget to grab your action plan. Just go to JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. And lastly, iTunes tends to suggest podcasts with more ratings and reviews more. You would totally make my day. If you give me a rating and review those go a long way in helping me grow the podcast audience, just open up your podcast app.

[42:20] If you have an iPhone, do a search for success through failure, select it, and then scroll the whole way to the bottom where you can leave the podcast, a rating and a review. Now I hope this isn’t just another podcast episode for you. I hope you take action on what you learned here today. Good luck.

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