[00:00] Nathan Tanner: The real challenge is integration. If we were a one dimensional person was solely focused on winning at work, we would be fine, but we’re not, we’re a holistic person. We want to be healthy. We want to have good relationships, good habits. It’s a, that I feel like is the real challenge is kind of all of these things coming together.

[00:26] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Welcome to another episode of success for the athletic minded man, real talk on harnessing your athletic drive. For clarity, consistency, and focus in business and life. This is your host, Jim Harshaw, Jr. And today I’m bringing you Nathan Tanner. You ever wonder how the highest performing leaders, the most successful executives, how they operate and how that’s different from the rest of the world, from those who are still stuck at good and want to become great.

[00:57] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Well, that’s exactly what we talk about here in this interview with Nathan Tanner. Nathan has worked with leaders at high growth startups. And other companies like DoorDash, Electronic Arts, EA, LinkedIn, Lyft, and Google, and all these other great companies that are household names. He’s been a, an advisor at Y Combinator, which is one of the probably most successful incubators in the world, probably in history, out in Silicon Valley.

[01:29] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So Nathan’s worked with all these amazing leaders and he himself. Has had some incredible experiences. He was the head of HR at DoorDash when they went from 250 to 5, 000 employees. And what a crazy ride that was. He was part of Lehman Brothers. Actually, I’m not even going to share some of this. So I’m going to let you hear from the first time from his lips, because there are some crazy things that he shares that he’s experienced in his career.

[01:53] Jim Harshaw Jr.: He’s Forbes, Inc. Magazine, Fast Company, and other publications and. He’s an Ironman triathlete, and he talks about how he trained for an Ironman, became an Ironman, and he’s a father of four and, you know, balancing career, balancing training. So really interesting guy in so many ways. And he has a great book called The Unconquerable Leader.

[02:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And it is a fascinating, fascinating book. Now, if you want to participate in a discussion around what we talk about here in today’s episode, join my free community, go to jimharshawjr.com/free. Every week we’re talking about these podcast episodes, the big questions, the big learnings that come out of these, you can actually get more clarity.

[02:37] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I’m in there. You and I can have a conversation around this in the community. Again, go to jimharshawjr.com/free. There’s also a free seven day, seven days to clarity course in there. It’s all my best stuff. Packed into a seven day free video course with worksheets and discussion exercises, et cetera.

[02:55] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So jump on in there. I look forward to interacting with you. All right, let’s get into it. My interview with Nathan Tanner. You completed an Ironman. I want to know, like you’re a busy guy, father of four. I don’t know when you did this. I’m curious. Like, when did you do the Ironman? What was your work and family situation?

[03:13] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like I’ve always wanted to do one, but just the sheer volume of time that goes into that, you know, scares me.

[03:20] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, it’s a lot. It was about three years ago. I did it. And the impetus behind the Iron Man, I think, is just as important as doing the Iron Man itself. I had this experience. I was flying from Salt Lake City to California to meet my family.

[03:37] Nathan Tanner: I was late for a flight, and I’m like running through the airport, hot and sweaty, and I get there, 45 minute flight delay. And I realize, oh, I’m not going to be able to see. My wife and kids, or at least my kids, they’re going to be asleep before that. And now I’m like sweaty, and I’m in this warm airport, and I remember thinking like, this is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to me.

[04:01] Nathan Tanner: And I’m embarrassed to say that, and then I catch myself in this moment. I’m like, how did you get so like, soft? Like, how is this such like a challenging thing for you? Funny enough, I see this book over your shoulder, The Comfort Crisis. I stumbled on this book and I started looking into, like, the science of comfort and learned about this idea of a Masogi, of this, like, one thing you do, uh, one day a year that’s so hard and, like, kind of resets your expectations for the rest of the year.

[04:32] Nathan Tanner: And I was thinking about that. I’m like, I haven’t done anything really hard in a while. And so I’d done a couple short distance triathlons at that point. And I had a friend who was doing an Ironman, and I thought about this, like, 2. 4 mile swim, uh, over 100 mile bike ride, and then a marathon at the end.

[04:49] Nathan Tanner: I’m like, oh, that may be, like, impossible. And once I thought that I’m like, that’s it, that’s my Misogi. Um, and so I remember I signed up for it. I committed to doing it. I was still in a full time job when I signed up for it, but I was actually in the process of transitioning to be a full time coach when that took place.

[05:08] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Wow. So. That’s a, there’s a lot of time that goes into that. So you mentioned Michael Easter. I interviewed him for the listeners. If you want to go back to episode 312, we had Michael on and a really, just a really, really great conversation in the comfort crisis is such a, a great book. So what was harder?

[05:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Going through the Ironman, you know, training and competing in the Ironman or going through the collapse of Lehman Brothers. So this was the largest bankruptcy in history. And you were working, what, as an investment banker at Lehman at the time, is that right?

[05:43] Nathan Tanner: I was, yeah. So I’m a, I’m a 2008 grad. And I remember in 2007, I got this internship, I worked hard, I networked.

[05:52] Nathan Tanner: These banks didn’t come and recruit on my school. And my school felt like so awesome getting this job. And fast forward, I start summer of 2008 full time, a couple of weeks into the job, Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt. Yes. Largest, largest bankruptcy in history kind of triggered the financial crisis and the great recession.

[06:14] Nathan Tanner: And it was as hard as the Ironman was, that was really, you know, in just a one day period. And I knew if I didn’t finish or something happened, like I’m going to have to sign up again and finish it eventually. Lehman Brothers was really challenging because it, it It struck the story that I’ve been telling myself and kind of how I viewed myself.

[06:37] Nathan Tanner: So a lot of my kind of inner narrative was wrapped up in, like, I am this kind of young, successful investment banker, and I’ve got this job and my identity had to be revisited when I lost that job and ultimately really, really struggled. And so that, that was, that was a very, very challenging period because.

[06:56] Nathan Tanner: For months leading up to, it wasn’t just the bankruptcy. I joined Barclays after the bankruptcy, when they acquired the U. S. operations, and then I got let go from that position. And so there was just this whole like garbage story. I was telling myself around like. I’m not good. I’m not smart enough. And then I really struggled to find work after that.

[07:18] Nathan Tanner: And so that was a very, very challenging

[07:20] Jim Harshaw Jr.: period. You obviously have come a long way since then. And you’ve had an incredibly successful career and have worked with all these amazing companies and in your book, the unconquerable leader. There is a part where you, at the very beginning, where you talk about telling, tell a new story.

[07:39] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Is that related to kind of something you had to go through coming out of these failures and these setbacks in your career? Did you have to tell yourself a different story?

[07:48] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, that’s, that’s absolutely it. And I remember when I got the Lehman Brothers internship, someone in my class was like, oh, you’ve made it.

[07:59] Nathan Tanner: Like, you are set. And I remember, like, kind of laughing and brushing it off, but I believed that to an extent. Like, okay, I got this job. Now I’m like, good. I’m on the path of success and that story just got completely rocked. And then I started telling myself the story of like, I don’t think I’m smart enough.

[08:19] Nathan Tanner: I don’t know if I’m good enough. And I ended up getting back into investment banking. There was a job opportunity that came up at a smaller bank years later. And I was hesitant to interview because. That story had been shattered, and so I’ve learned like we can only grow as much as we’re allowing ourselves to like, we need to continue to tell ourselves new stories around what’s possible.

[08:45] Nathan Tanner: And like that, I think, is a central theme to how I’ve evolved and made career changes from finance to HR and to coaching. But that’s a muscle that has been built over time. And it’s something that I’ve, I’ve, I’ve certainly struggled with in the past.

[09:00] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. I think that’s critical for the listener. I mean, how, how do you go about that?

[09:03] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like, cause every listener, the people who listen to a podcast like this are generally. Guys who know there’s another gear inside of them, right? They want to go from good to great and they’re probably working really hard. There’s probably a story going on inside of their head. And I don’t know, maybe you can, you can tell me your opinion or this, your thought of this is different.

[09:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like for me, I feel like it’s typically unconscious. Like it’s this subconscious line of thought that is just. Underlying their daily decisions, daily actions, what they think. How do you identify that? Like, what do you do about it? Cause we, I’ve heard this before. This isn’t the first time someone’s heard about like, tell yourself a new story.

[09:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like how do you actually go about that?

[09:50] Nathan Tanner: Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the places to start are the labels that we attach to ourselves. I’ve heard this quote of like the more labels we have for ourselves, the dumber we are, another way of that is the more labels that we have for ourselves, the more self limiting that may be.

[10:05] Nathan Tanner: And so I think naturally we think like, okay, I am good at this, or I’m bad at this. And so I think kind of calling that out, the first place that I start is, let’s take time and identify those stories that you’re telling yourselves. Like, what are they? And it does take some self reflection. And so the first question is like, what’s a story I’m telling myself that no longer serves me.

[10:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: We’re going to have that in the action plan, by the way. So if you didn’t remember that question, like that is a critical question we need to ask. And Nathan, one of the things that I talk about a lot in this podcast is this concept of like, all success comes from not doing, but actually from hitting the pause button first, hitting the pause button, asking these hard questions, this kind of self reflection.

[10:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: How are these labels no longer serving me and the concept that I’ve coined this term called the productive pause and the productive pause is defined as this. It’s a short period of focused reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action. And peace of mind. And that’s what we’re talking about.

[11:09] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So for the listener, like Nathan’s really good at what he does. He’s worked with all these great companies, help them scale. You know, he he’s hired by Y Combinator and DoorDash and LinkedIn. He’s worked with all like, he knows what he’s talking about. You, this stuff doesn’t work unless you actually do it and hit the pause button.

[11:26] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So go ahead, Nathan. Walk us through it some more.

[11:28] Nathan Tanner: I’ll share that question one more time. What’s a story you’ve been telling yourself that no longer serves you? And I’ll share two very quick examples. So in eighth grade, we had to run a mile every single week. I could not finish that mile once without stopping to walk halfway through it.

[11:49] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So I am not a good runner.

[11:51] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, like I just can’t run. And, and, you know, a couple years later, I’m in this honors English class and we’re writing all the time and like, I’m getting bad grades on my writing. I’m falling behind. I transfer out of this class. And what’s another story? Like, I am, I am not a good writer and, and those stories stick with me for a long time.

[12:11] Nathan Tanner: And I think we all have things like that. And so the second question is, once we’ve identified these, a story that no longer serves us, is What’s a different story you can tell? So that’s the second question. And that’s critical. And so I, I decided in both of those situations, I’m like, okay, I’m not a good runner or I’m not a good writer yet.

[12:33] Nathan Tanner: And then how do I, how do I create evidence to tell a new story? Like, okay, I’m going to go out and run every day for the next You know, two weeks, and I might not get that far, but I’m just going to like, keep doing it. Alright, I started writing for a website called Bleacher Report. I wasn’t paid, very few people read it at first, but I’m like, I’m gonna write 20 30 articles.

[12:55] Nathan Tanner: And so once you’ve identified the new story you want to tell, go out and find little pieces of evidence that solidify that story around who you want to be.

[13:05] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And I’ll say that I have an exercise in our program called Cognitive Restructuring, or Cognitive Conversion. It’s based on this concept of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy called Cognitive Restructuring.

[13:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So Cognitive Conversion is doing exactly what you’re talking about, but sometimes you have to go create the evidence. Sometimes the evidence is actually already there. Sometimes you can just look in your history and go, wait a second. I’ve been telling myself this story, but there’s actually this, I did this and I’ve done that and I’ve done this and I’ve done that and the evidence you have to go create it new stuff, but there’s also evidence in your past sometimes that.

[13:39] Jim Harshaw Jr.: That tells a different story.

[13:40] Nathan Tanner: Absolutely. Yeah. Great, great call out, Jim.

[13:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. And so you work with all these incredibly high performers and high, high performing executives in these, these companies that we, we know these household names, do they struggle with these kinds of things? And if so, how are you helping them working through the challenges?

[14:01] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like what are some of the challenges that you see? The, these people who are in these high performing roles, because I’m going to quote something from your book, the unconquerable leader. You said the real challenge of leadership is doing all of these things. In the prior sentence, you basically talked about crafting the vision and setting goals and communicating, et cetera.

[14:21] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So the real challenge of leadership is doing all of these things at once. When deep down you feel like an imposter. The real challenge is showing up with confidence when the odds are stacked against you. The real challenge is thriving at work and away from work. Can we talk about some of these challenges?

[14:41] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Cause I think my, my audience absolutely resonates with all of these things and posture showing up with confidence when the odds are stacked against you and then thriving at work and at home.

[14:51] Nathan Tanner: Yeah. When I became. An executive coach, or when I was on this path, early path of becoming an executive coach, I remember thinking, I am going to come in and help people become better leaders and I’m using air quotes here, Jim around leaders, like I’m going to help people learn to delegate effectively and hold their team accountable and give difficult feedback and all of these leadership attributes that we often think about or, or, or tactics.

[15:22] Nathan Tanner: I call this the, the external game, uh, when I, when I share this in my book. And that was kind of how I was coming into it. And what I realized when I actually started working with very successful people, like, yes, those things are important, but the larger challenge Was the internal game, all of the things that were going on inside of them that impacted how they lead but weren’t visible to others.

[15:52] Nathan Tanner: And so we’ve already touched on this. These are the stories that we, we tell ourselves. This is managing our ego. It’s mental and emotional resilience. Like there are coaching sessions I have where like, sometimes I’m only talking about someone’s marriage for 45 minutes because that may be what is Holding them back from showing up the way they want to.

[16:15] Nathan Tanner: And so that, that I think is the, the real challenge it’s, it’s, it’s this integration, like if we were a one dimensional person who was solely focused on like winning at work, like we would be fine, but we’re not, we’re a holistic person and we, we want to be healthy. We want to have good relationships, good habits.

[16:39] Nathan Tanner: And so that I feel like is the real challenge is kind of. All of these things coming together. And that’s where I feel like the magic of coaching can, uh, can come from.

[16:49] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, I totally agree. I that’s in our coaching practice. We call it executive life coaching, you know, and we’re setting goals, not only career and business goals, but relationships, self health, and then wealth is the career business goals.

[17:02] Jim Harshaw Jr.: These are all impacting one another. Are there habits or routines that you generally see the higher performers doing or the ones who. Or struggling not doing, are there sort of common themes or common habits or routines that you’re seeing?

[17:20] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, this is where one on one coaching I think becomes really powerful.

[17:26] Nathan Tanner: One of the things I immediately do with the executives that I coach is like, let’s look at your daily practice. I call this a daily practice. Like what are the core activities? that if you do consistently, you’re going to show up as your medicine. And so that usually is some sort of exercise, physical movement.

[17:49] Nathan Tanner: For many, it is prayer or meditation or some sort of spiritual practice. I really push hard on, on gratitude and expressing gratitude for the things that we’ve had, but, but I have found that it, it can vary a little bit of what it looks like from, from person to person. There’s no, like, you have to wake up at 5 a.

[18:10] Nathan Tanner: m. and cold plunge and do all of these things. But like, let’s identify what works for you. Like when you have performed at your best, what were you doing? One of my favorite lines I share is like, and maybe this comes from me being a triathlete, but life is an endurance sport. It’s not just about showing up today or showing up tomorrow.

[18:30] Nathan Tanner: It’s like, how do you string together a series? Of, you know, consistent performance that is going to allow you to operate at your best.

[18:39] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. And that comes from, here’s a, I’m going to reference your book here. It comes from not doing everything. You know, when I interviewed Tim Ferriss back in for the listener episode, 246, 247, if you want to go back and listen to those as a really, really, I got so much out of those interviews, but one of the things that Tim Ferriss talked about is if you try to follow the morning routines.

[19:03] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Of all the gurus and all the people out there that say you should, you know, cold plunge and meditate and pray and journal and work out and drink green tea. And, you know, like, it’s like, you’ll, you’ll be doing your, he said, you’ll be doing your morning routine until three o’clock in the afternoon. And it just was such a good point.

[19:21] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like you can’t do it all. And in your book, you, there’s this chapter that really jumped out to me. You said, decide where you’ll intentionally. Underperform decide where you’ll intentionally underperform. And you start out, you say this, you said there’s this often heard quote out there, how you do anything is how you do everything.

[19:41] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I think that is such a load of crap and you do too. And I’m glad to find the result in that. So. Yes. Talk about that.

[19:49] Nathan Tanner: Yeah. The challenge we face is the challenge of more. There’s always a like, Oh yeah, I need to do that. We hear someone who has, you’re probably listening to this and thinking like, Oh yeah, I probably need to exercise more or maybe I do need to, to add this or add that.

[20:10] Nathan Tanner: And the challenge for ambitious, highly successful people. It is like there’s always more. And so when I push people on, I’m like, okay, let’s add more. But what are we going to remove? Or what are you going to allow yourself to fail at? Like there was a period where the only exercise I did was as many push ups I could do without stopping before I then like jumped in my car and ran off to work.

[20:38] Nathan Tanner: And doing, what, 50 push ups? That was a success for me physically. It took 60 seconds and that was it. And I was like, I, I’m going to strategically underperform in, in this. It’s a good question for everyone. I’m like, okay, given the vision I have for myself, what I want to do, what I want to prioritize, what am I willing to let go?

[21:00] Nathan Tanner: And maybe that’s relationships. I don’t want to make any recommendations. We have to cut things.

[21:07] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yep. It’s where can I say no or not yet or not now? And I have a similar story when I was. Working full time and building this business in my last full year, working full time, I use, I’ll use your term strategically underperform.

[21:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I love that term strategic underperformance. That is such a great, that is a great concept. I strategically underperformed in my health and fitness too, because I knew that I had a job to do, which was 50, 60 hour a week job and working nights and weekends and travel and all of this stuff, and I was building a business.

[21:40] Jim Harshaw Jr.: On the side and for kids and, and everything else that goes with it. So I said, I’m going to, you know, my goal is to do 300 workouts this year. And I’m going to count if I do a 10 minute. Hit workout in the morning, literally 10 minutes. It was three sets of pushups, three sets of pull ups, three sets of 10 burpees and three sets of curls.

[22:01] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And that was it. That was my, or three sets of badger. And that was my workout and, and I could do it in 10 minutes or less and it counted and I strategically underperformed there. And then the very next year is when I ran a marathon. I love, I’d always wanted to run a marathon. And so for the listener, you have to think about how to apply this to your life.

[22:19] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like, where can you strategically underperform? Where can you. Let go, say no, not now, not yet, do something so you can focus on the right thing.

[22:28] Nathan Tanner: And it helps, it helps us remove the guilt, but for me, and I think for a lot of ambitious people, there’s a guilt that comes with, I should be doing this, but I’m not doing it.

[22:37] Nathan Tanner: And then if it’s like intentionally like I’m not prioritizing this right now. Great. Let’s, let’s remove the guilt and put all the positive energy into where it needs to be.

[22:46] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Get clear on that. And like, if you’re not clear on it, you just feel guilty. And so for me, I actually went through a process yesterday.

[22:54] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I did a productive pause and on my whiteboard here in my office, I had. About 15 things that I felt I should be doing more social media, more of this, you know, optimizing YouTube videos and marketing for this. And, you know, doing these outreaches and all of this and put it all up there. And I said, okay, what can I say yes to?

[23:16] Jim Harshaw Jr.: What, what do I want to say yes to? And what can I say no to? So now there’s some things that are on that list that I feel like I felt like I should be doing. I’m like, Oh. I’m, I’m actually go to strategically underperformed. I’m going to put those aside so I can focus on what matters most right now. And, and that’s it.

[23:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And this goes back to, for the listener, you have to have this clear vision for your life. And this is something that I coach and I, Nathan, I would love to hear your thoughts on this is like getting clear on your life, not just clear on your. Business and your work life and how much money you want to make.

[23:45] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And, but also like, what does your vision for your marriage look like, or your relationships look like? What does your vision in your, your faith life look like? What does your vision look like in, in your health and fitness? Like, it’s not going to be the same as Nathan’s. It’s not going to be the same as mine.

[23:58] Jim Harshaw Jr.: It’s going to be, it’s going to be yours. So how important is that in being scalable to use the term that you’ve talked about in your book, scaling yourself, how do you scale yourself? Like, how important is the vision? Having that clear vision in scaling yourself.

[24:13] Nathan Tanner: Yeah. Whenever I start working with a new executive, I have a 20 question intake form that we walk through.

[24:22] Nathan Tanner: And the first question is let’s fast forward to the end of your life. Someone’s giving a speech about you. What would you want them to say? How do you want to be remembered? We do this before we get into like what leadership attributes do you want to grow? And then we’ll spend some time around core values.

[24:40] Nathan Tanner: And it all starts with that vision and the long term goal of who you want to become. And then that allows you to kind of take steps back and think, okay how do I get there? And so I have learned this, like the clearer it is, the clearer the goal we have. The more likely it will be that we, that we get there.

[25:02] Nathan Tanner: And so that starts with everything. I mean, we hear about climbing the, climbing the ladder and, and the last thing I want for me or for anyone I work with, it’s like, okay, you’ve spent your life climbing this ladder only to realize that it’s, it’s up against the wrong wall. And so it requires intentionality.

[25:18] Nathan Tanner: It requires like stepping back and thinking about that, that long term vision.

[25:23] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. And unfortunately, most people. Don’t do that work, right? They just wake up and do the same thing today for no better reason. Then that’s what they did yesterday. And the same thing tomorrow for no better reason. That’s what they did today.

[25:36] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And they’re drifting or coasting through, maybe not even coasting, but drifting, you know, with the masses, with what they’re seeing on social media and what the mass media is telling them they should want, or based on, you know, setting their, their goals based on what’s parked in their neighbor’s driveway, instead of what.

[25:52] Jim Harshaw Jr.: They want right. They don’t have that clear target. And so they just, um, they drift. Right. And they, then they feel like they should be doing all these other things. And whenever you get clear on the vision, then it’s like, okay, you can go, go back to the prior things that we’re talking about. Like you can, now you can understand, okay, these are the things that should be included in my life.

[26:09] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And these are the things that can be excluded. Or I can say no, or not now or not yet too. So, so Nathan, you had, it. An incredible experience at DoorDash. You were part of scaling DoorDash from about 250 people to 5, 000 people. What was that ride like?

[26:26] Nathan Tanner: DoorDash was an incredible ride. I had this, I was at LinkedIn, which is an excellent company.

[26:31] Nathan Tanner: There were probably 11 people there. And I remember telling myself, like, I want to be at an earlier stage startup, I want to have more impact, I want to have a bigger job. And joining DoorDash was very much a be careful what you wish for moment, because I stepped into a head of HR role, I hadn’t done it before, I hadn’t worked at a company as small as DoorDash, and it was really, really challenging.

[26:56] Nathan Tanner: And I remember those first three or four months, just waking up every morning, like, Overwhelmed kind of a anxious, like pit in my stomach. And it was really, really crazy at first. And then it was just a ton of fun. Once I adjusted to the pace and the speed of it. I mean, while I was there, we raised, I think, five rounds of funding, including an IPO, uh, the valuation went from six or 700 million to 70 billion.

[27:24] Nathan Tanner: And the first year and a half was really challenging. Like there was a period and Tony CEO, founder talks about this. Like we almost ran out of money and it was a very difficult period. And that I think became foundational to the rest of the company’s success because. We had to get really, really good at operations.

[27:44] Nathan Tanner: We had to figure out how can we do more with less? How do we compete with a, an Uber or a Grubhub that has more resources? And during this period, DoorDash went from 10 percent market share to, I think they’re over 60, 70 percent market share now in, in restaurant delivery. And so, uh, anyway, it was, uh, it was a ride of a lifetime and one.

[28:05] Nathan Tanner: That in the process led to a lot of personal, personal growth.

[28:10] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, I can imagine. So, you know, you obviously did a lot of things right there. If, can you think of a decision or a strategy that you wish you would have done differently in hindsight?

[28:23] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, this is, this is a, this is a lesson I’ve had both at DoorDash and other areas.

[28:28] Nathan Tanner: I felt like I had to do everything myself, and I stepped into this role, and some of it’s imposter syndrome. Some of it’s like, I got to prove that they didn’t hire the wrong person. And when you’re leading HR, there’s all these different responsibilities that you have of like, okay, I’m responsible for Compensating people.

[28:48] Nathan Tanner: So there’s an analytical side, there’s a, how do we train and develop people? So there’s kind of a softer side and I’m like, I have to be really, really good at everything. And in the process of trying to do that, I, I struggled. I wasn’t able to do that. And we ultimately hired a chief people officer about a year and a half after I was there, which was the plan all along.

[29:12] Nathan Tanner: And I remember when this person joined, she very quickly went out and hired a couple consultants or brought in other leaders that had very specific expertise. And I was like, Oh, like, wait, I could have done that. Like, I didn’t have to do this all myself. And so I think that was a big insight of like, okay.

[29:34] Nathan Tanner: And I talk about this with leaders, but I struggled to do this myself. I’m like, let’s identify the very unique things that I am good at. And I get energy and doing. And then how do I go out and hire other people who Are strong in the areas where I’m weak or get really energized and things that are really, really draining to me.

[29:54] Nathan Tanner: And so that was the biggest lesson during the time at DoorDash.

[29:58] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Learn by doing. And I also think that it’s easy for, it’s easy for a lot of us to coach other people and help other people. But boy, we’re on the inside of the jar trying to read the label ourselves. And it’s critical for us to have those people outside of us.

[30:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Coaching us, seeing our own blind spots, et cetera. Absolutely. Let’s zoom out more broadly on your career. You know, you’ve worked at a bunch of amazing companies and you’re working with all these amazing executives. Can you think about a failure or mistake that you made in your career? That you learned the most from

[30:36] Nathan Tanner: yeah, I’m going to go back to Lehman Brothers for this one And the reason why Lehman Brothers was a failure for me Was my my mindset around the whole thing So I had a lot of good learnings from this like I I took my job for granted.

[30:51] Nathan Tanner: I failed because of that I I didn’t build a strong network internally at Lehman Brothers. So when they had to make Difficult decisions around who to let go. I was let go. I learned that I needed to be indispensable, which I wasn’t. And so that I think was a, was a failure for me. I’ve had other failures.

[31:10] Nathan Tanner: Like there are really bad moments at DoorDash. There are triathlons where I did, I did poorly. For me though, this is a quote that you shared, like failure is not an ending. It’s a beginning. It’s a building block for success. I stumbled on that quote recently, but like, that’s the mindset I’ve had, I’ve tried to have since.

[31:31] Nathan Tanner: And so I just view failure differently. And one of my favorite words is experiments. And now, whenever I’m trying something new, like writing a book or offering a new coaching program, of like, let’s think of this as an experiment, where if I do it, I’m going to learn regardless. And so the Lehman Brothers was a failure because I had the mindset of like, this is on me.

[31:56] Nathan Tanner: I made a mistake where now when I fail, it’s like, okay, what am I going to learn from this? How am I going to move forward?

[32:03] Jim Harshaw Jr.: That’s the crux that we all have to think about. And for the listener, you know, think about your own failure and how. Yeah. What does that make possible? What new knowledge, wisdom information do you have now that you didn’t have before that failure?

[32:15] Nathan Tanner: Yeah. I think just one of the thought on this, like for me, the way I think about failure is like failure is not trying. My book, I feel happy with how it’s, how it’s gone, but like I decided to write a book. Failure would have been letting fear stop me from like going through the publishing process.

[32:34] Nathan Tanner: Failure’s not like getting up to bat and swinging. Failure is like, you have the ball in your hands and you don’t take the shot. Like that, that’s how I think about it.

[32:42] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Love that. Nathan, what’s a habit for yourself that you most credit for your success? You’ve had incredible success again, personally and professionally.

[32:53] Jim Harshaw Jr.: What’s one habit that you most credit for your own success?

[32:56] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, I, I, I strive to do the, the, the daily practice that I, that I work on with clients. And so mine is, uh, you know, exercise, prayer and gratitude, other things. I, I think if there’s one thing, I set a goal 11 years ago, I had a professor challenge me on this.

[33:15] Nathan Tanner: It was a, he called it the 30 book challenge. to read 30 books in a year. Um, and I’m, I’m very competitive. And so when he, when he put the challenge out there, I’m like, okay, game on, let’s give this a try. I have done every year since, I think this was 11 years ago, and I’m going to struggle, uh, recording this in November of 2024.

[33:35] Nathan Tanner: I’m going to struggle to get there, but I’m confident I’ll get there. And that I think is one of the most important habits of. Regularly, and less about the number of books. It could be 10, it could be 20, but that focus of continually learning. has been really, really important for me. Like that’s, that’s it of like, I don’t know how to do something.

[33:59] Nathan Tanner: Okay, I’m going to go figure it out, or I’m going to be open to a new idea or change. And having, having that mindset, I think has been the most important.

[34:09] Jim Harshaw Jr.: For the listener who is bought into what you’ve shared here, And they want to start taking action. What’s one action item that they can do in the next, let’s say, 24 to 48 hours to start moving towards our goals to start implementing what you shared here today, Nathan.

[34:26] Nathan Tanner: Yeah, I go back to those questions around storytelling, but what’s a story you’ve been telling yourself? That no longer serves you. And then the second question, What’s a different story? What’s a new story you can tell? And then if I get a, if I get a bonus one, writing your goals down every day. Like, that, that is uh, I’m probably not the first person who shared that with you, but like, That’s a habit I started a while ago, and it just like burns it into your subconscious.

[34:55] Nathan Tanner: Whatever it is you want to do, put that in front and center. Remind yourself of it every day.

[34:59] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Love that. Simple. This stuff is easy to do. Easy not to do. For the listener, I encourage you to take action. Make sure you download the action plan from this episode. Go to jimharshawjr.com/action, and we’ll have all the links and quotes and everything that Nathan shared here.

[35:14] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Nathan, uh, where can people find you, follow you, buy your books, et cetera? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[35:19] Nathan Tanner: Yes. Uh, I’m very active on, on LinkedIn. So I’d love it if you come and said, say hello. NathanTanner. net is my website. And then my book, The Unconquerable Leader, you can check out on Amazon.

[35:29] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Excellent. Nathan, thank you so much for making time to come on the show.

[35:33] Nathan Tanner: Thank you so much, Jim. My pleasure.

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