Get a chance to win one of Kathleen Trotter’s fitness books just by listening to this episode! Tune in til the end of the episode to find out how.
Kathleen Trotter, MSc, is a fitness expert, media personality, personal trainer, and author of “Finding Your Fit: A Compassionate Trainer’s Guide to Making Fitness a Lifelong Habit” and “Your Fittest Future Self: Making Choices Today for a Happier, Healthier, Fitter Future You.”
Kathleen has been a personal trainer and fitness expert for almost 20 years. She holds a master’s degree in Exercise Science from the University of Toronto, a nutrition diploma from the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition, and a nutrition certification through Precision Nutrition.
Her mission is to inspire as many people as possible to adopt (in an intelligent way) a healthier lifestyle and to make healthier choices because they love themselves, NOT because they hate themselves.
Kathleen joins us in this episode of the Success Through Failure podcast to guide you through your fitness journey using simple yet effective actionable tips and tricks— so your trips to the gym are fun and exciting, not tormenting. Let her years of fitness expertise help you find your fit. Listen now!
If you don’t have time to listen to the entire episode or if you hear something that you like but don’t have time to write it down, be sure to grab your free copy of the Action Plan from this episode— as well as get access to action plans from EVERY episode— at JimHarshawJr.com/Action.
Download the Action Plan from This Episode Here
[00:00] Kathleen Trotter: You have to look at your schedule. You have to plan it in. You have to look at your life and say like, where are going to be my roadblocks? What can I do that takes into account what's real. And how can I set that real life up for success?
[00:17] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Welcome to another episode of success through failure. This is your host, Jim Harshaw, Jr. and today I bring you Kathleen Trotter. You listen to podcasts, read books, follow the experts on social media, and you find yourself getting mediocre results in your business, in your health and your relationships. And you know, you're not living up to your full potential. You've not broken through the limiting beliefs that are holding you back.
[00:42] And if you continue on this path, there are consequences. If nothing changes. Imagine looking back in 20 years with regret and thinking, what if, like, what if I could have found a way to unlock my true potential? Like how would that. The different, well, you can unlock your true potential. I'm hosting our second annual retreat May 13th through 15th, titled moving to mastery.
[01:05] We're going to take all the book knowledge that you've learned and all of the life experiences that you've lived and turn it into results. It's going to be an intense weekend of deep learning and powerful, immersive experiences that don't stop when you leave, but actually include. 30 days of growth.
[01:23] Following the retreat, we've reserved a private lodge and events center, all to ourselves located on 330 acres, just outside of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. It's an hour and a half drive from two major airports, Dallas and BWI. So it's easy access for. Anywhere in the United States or Canada space is limited.
[01:43] So if you're interested in self-mastery and finally getting the results, you know, you're capable of reach out to me as soon as possible to apply. Just go to JimHarshawJr.com/RETREAT It's time for you to move to mass. Kathleen is a fitness expert, media personality, personal trainer, and author of two books.
[02:07] The first one, finding your fit and the second one, your fittest future self. Now there are plenty of social media personalities out there. YouTube channels about fitness and nutrition. Kathleen is absolutely the real deal she's been in the industry for nearly 20 years as a personal trainer and fitness expert.
[02:28] She holds a master's degree in exercise science from the university of Toronto, a nutrition diploma from the Canadian school of natural nutrition I would go on, but literally there are like 50 different classes, courses, certifications. That Kathleen has taken or done or has listed under her name on our website.
[02:48] And she is the real deal. I mean, whether in nutrition or in fitness, I mean, she has the knowledge, the experience and wisdom to, to bring to us. And she really drops a lot of this on us in this episode. And like I said, she has, she's written two books. And we're actually going to give away one of her books.
[03:07] So if you get to the end of this episode, you listened to those action items. And if you take even just one of those action items, let me know either mention me on either Twitter or Instagram. So @jimharshw on Twitter or @jimharshawjr on Instagram. Let me know, or you can just make a comment on one of my posts that you took the action on one of these things, and we're going to do a giveaway giveaway one of her books to one lucky listener.
[03:31] So make sure you get to the end of the episode, make sure you listen to those action items and at least take action on one of those. All right. Let's jump in here is my interview with none other than the amazing Kathleen. Kathleen, let's start with this. Fitness is something that we all know that we should do.
[03:50] We should be working out and be staying fit. But so many people struggle with it. They start, they stop. They're inconsistent. They have doubt, lack motivation, but it's so important. We know it's important, but the failure and the struggle creates self doubt and that makes it even harder. And we lose motivation and harder to get restarted.
[04:08] Why is it? Why is it so
[04:10] Kathleen Trotter: hard? Yep. I love that question. And I think, I mean, it's complicated and that's partly why it's so hard is that we expect it to be easier. A lot of people expect it to be easy, we think, okay. We're just going to find the perfect program. You know, something in that magazine. Oh, 30 days I will be fit.
[04:25] It'll be done for life. I figured it out. Check. I think, we think it's this sort of light switch that's either on or off either unhealthy or we're healthy. And that's just not how it is. It's not simple. It's not easy. And that doesn't mean it's not also fun. That doesn't mean it's not inspiring. That doesn't mean it's not unbelievably meaningful and additive to our life.
[04:44] Right. Like I think back on the last 40 years of my life and some of the most important experiences from my childhood to now have been when I've been active, My community, you know, I remember when I did my first Ironman and like 15 of my friends came down and they watch me complete the event and they were with me the entire day on the route.
[05:00] And I won't never forget that. In fact, my girlfriends, when I finished, they bought me this Ironman necklace that I wear, you know, forever. So it has such powerful potential to add to our life, add to our self esteem, our. How we feel about ourselves, our identity, but it's not easy. It's not simple. And I think that we get into this mindset of like, well, people who are motivated are always motivated or fitness people.
[05:23] It's simple for them. And I want people listening to get one thing from this podcast, which is. People who were active or not always motivated what they are is they've created environments and systems and habits and a mindset that set them up for success. I'm not always motivated, but that doesn't mean I'm not always active or most of the time always act so.
[05:44] We have to get away from it should be simple. There should be no failure. It should just be this light switch I turned on and we have to think, okay, realistic expectations. This is something that I'm going to be working on for the rest of my life. This is a privilege like you are alive, and if you are alive, then the problem of privileges that you get to work on.
[06:01] You know, moving your body, finding your fit because your fit and your body is connected to how you see yourself, your mindset, your identity, how you connect to the world, your relationships, not just this one thing. It's not like fitness lives outside of your life. And then there is your life, your health and your wellness and your body.
[06:17] And how you think about yourself. That is who you are. That is your life. That is. You are bringing to the world. So it is not going to be simple. Is it going to be meaningful? As I said, yes. Is it can be fun. Hopefully. I don't know. I like thinking about it. Uh, James Karsa says book finite and infinite games.
[06:33] I think that's what it's called. And he talks about this idea of, you know, finite games or things that you win, right? Like a basketball game or you play a game of cards, you know, the winner or the loser. There's a really finite thing. You do, you start and you stop. And I think too often people think about their health as that finite game.
[06:47] Right. It's like, Hey, well, I'm going to lose. Matter of wait for my wedding, I'm going to get in shape for this. And then they get there. They reach that goal. I was like, okay, done check mark. You know, over, but health and wellness is an infinite game, right? You keep going. You keep winning, you keep learning.
[07:01] You keep growing, you fall, you get up, you pick yourself up, you learn, you get back on your horse, a more informed rider and. I think that the finite stuff can be part of it, right? Like go for it. Have short-term long-term goals, but you have to frame them as part of that infinite process. So when you do have a stumble, when you do have a fumble and you're like, okay, I get back up.
[07:22] I learn, I keep going because it is this infinite game. It is this problem privileged that I get to work on for the rest of my life. And I, like, I know you're an athlete, so I'm sure you get that. Like, does that land for you? All that stuff?
[07:34] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Yeah, 100% because the thing that really resonates with me and I hope resonates with the listeners is I'm a fit person generally.
[07:41] I mean, I'm, I'm working out very consistently marathons and Spartan races and consistently working out. But like, but I go through phases where I'm just not motivated to people look at me and go, oh gosh, it's just Jim. That's just what he does. Right. It's just easy for me. Right. And I actually struggled with.
[07:58] You know, and I don't know how much I've shared this with the listeners either, but you know, I, I was an All-American athlete and I coached for about 12 years afterwards. So my life was working out. I just, I lived in a wrestling room and in a weight room and I just, yeah, the
[08:12] Kathleen Trotter: environment supported that that's
[08:14] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: it.
[08:15] Right. The environment supported that I had this, the infrastructure was there. It was easy. I most couldn't not work out. After I got out of that for a lot of years, I struggled with like, oh, I have to actually find time to work out. And I defined it somewhere. And then kids came along and marriage and kids and job and all this, and like D in different phases.
[08:36] And I struggled with finding something that I enjoyed. I enjoyed wrestling, but now I don't have time to wrestle as much as I used to because I'm not, it's not my full-time job anymore. So I feel like. Drive there and make time for practice and all of this. And for me, something clicked a few years ago when I found my fit and I want to talk about, and this is, this is the name of your, for your first book is finding your fit.
[08:56] And I found my fit a few years ago. And for me personally, it's this organization called . It's a men's workout organization. It's global. It's worldwide. Now it's an amazing organization. It's always free, always outside open to all men. There's a sister organization called FIA females in action. It's amazing.
[09:14] It's five 30 in the morning. So it's really early. We were out there yesterday morning in the snow, in the cold and it was miserable and it was.
[09:24] Kathleen Trotter: There's no bad weather. There's just that outfit. That's what I always say to my client. I was like, Nope. And I love that five 30. You front-loaded the day. Right?
[09:32] So you get it over with, so yeah, I think that's amazing. And it's
[09:36] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: not for everybody though. So that's what resonates is like. That is not for, I invite all my friends. I'm like, you should do this. It's so great. There's this great group. But I'm crazy to some people, but so I want people to understand, like, you've got to like, there's this idea of finding your fit and there's the idea of failing in, and you're not always going to be motivated.
[09:51] I wasn't motivated this morning when I went for a run with my neighbor, I would not have gotten out of bed if I didn't have an infrastructure, which is him waiting out in front of my house for me to go for a six mile run. And so I want you to talk about finding your fit because. There are all these things that they should, you should write the shingles, or you should do out there in the world, these workouts, and you should do it this way.
[10:15] And not that way, no, that way. And not this way. How do we, how do we figure out what. Should could do or what fits for us finding our fit. Yeah.
[10:25] Kathleen Trotter: Oh my God. If we could talk about this for like five hours, but I think part of it is stepping back and just realizing that you have to learn how to thrive in your own lane, but the lane will change.
[10:36] Right. So what's good for you in your twenties is different from your thirties, which is different in your forties and that's okay. And there's going to be ebbs and flows and all that matters is that you're working at it that you're growing. Um, Carol Dweck has this book called mindset and it's all about growth mindset, right?
[10:51] So everything, every experience is just data. And if you haven't figured out how to do it, you just haven't figured out how to do it yet, yet is her big word. Right? So if you are in a place in your process where you have that little bit of a dip of motivation, then you're like, okay, that's okay. Just haven't figured it out.
[11:04] This part of my process has not been figured out yet, but I can figure it out, but you can't figure it out by giving up. The only thing that's key is that you have that find solutions. Attitude. Um, my mom used to always say to me when I was a kid, like no excuses, only solutions. And then she would say, Kathleen, if you can't find a solution and I would have to go, you have to create a solution.
[11:25] It was like, she was a single mom. It was just as, and so we had a lot of these like little things that you would say, but I think that that's key is the solution and finding something that works for you for right now. Um, so, and knowing like, so I haven't always been fit, right? Like you look at me, a lot of people look at me and think, oh, like, it must be easy for her, but I grew up for the first half of my life.
[11:44] I was overweight. I'm six feet tall. I felt really awkward. I did anything to get out of gym class. I lied. Um, like literally, like I said, I was sick. I hated all, you know, team sports people my age. And my mom said to me, okay, Kathleen, listen so far, none of this is working for you, but being active has to be thought of as a non-negotiable, but how we're active.
[12:05] Up to you. And that was, she actually was the inspiration for my first book, finding your fit because she helped me find my fit. And she said, you know, okay, you don't love people your own age. You're uncomfortable with your peers, but, um, you don't mind people sort of over 40. She was an actress. So she is an actress.
[12:21] And so I spent a lot of time with her classically-trained back. So she was in Shakespeare plays and stuff. So I have to at the theater with people a lot older than me. So she got me a membership at the Y YMCA local membership at the local. We ran a very small town in 19. I Canada. And the demographic was like over 40 and under five.
[12:35] And she said, okay, you're just going to go. You're going to walk on the treadmill for 10 minutes. You're going to create little wins that are going to spiral upwards, and you're going to do something that works for you. And it would have been so easy for me to say, well, that's not enough, right? Like that's not a good enough workout.
[12:47] That's not the best. But listen, I say to my clients all the time, you don't have to be great to start, but you do have to start to get. Right. The benefits of the best. Anything are moot. If you cannot make yourself do it. So start where you are. And I'm not saying start where you and then stop. Like, so I started on the treadmill for 10 minutes, but I didn't stop there.
[13:05] Then it was 20 and then it was 30. Then I started like taking a robust class and then I started teaching aerobics classes. You know, I've done iron mans, I've done marathons. I teach Pilates. I have a master's in exercise science, like, but it always a slow, slow spiral. Right? Like I thought I was going to be a lawyer.
[13:20] Um, and then I got really into this health and fitness thing, but slowly and I would never, ever be where I am today. If my mom had said, Kathleen, the only way you can be fit. You join, you know, your peers and take dance or you join your peers and play softball. Now, listen, we tried that. I was on a softball team.
[13:38] I tried dance like, so it's not that my mum didn't try the more conventional stuff, but I hated it and I wouldn't go. Or when I went, I would mope and I wouldn't get anything out of it. So I think that's the first thing for people listening is to really realize that you find your fit through a trial and error through persistence.
[13:56] Through being willing to be who you are and being willing to start where you are and then progress. Like, I think that that's a really key factor. And then the second part is what you were talking about of that environment that supports you that's so, so, so critical. So James clear, he wrote atomic habits, like one of the best books on changing habits that anybody can read.
[14:19] So, you know, again, if you want something out of this podcast, go read a topic. Or I have a review of it on my website that goes through like all the points that kind of connect to health and wellness. But his basic premise is if you want to create a new habit, you make it convenient. Right? You make it easy.
[14:34] You make it simple. You make it fun. You make it something you want to do. And if you want to get rid of a habit, Not convenient, something you don't want to do, right? So you architect your life so that you're always constantly nudged towards the things that you want to do because life is busy. Life is a struggle.
[14:53] Life is hard. It's been a global pandemic. Like people are having to work and have their kids. Like it's very stressful. So if you let your life happen by default, then normally it defaults to very less healthy choices. So you have to design the. You want, you know, and so James, there talks in the book about kind of funny things.
[15:10] So people who connect the bike to their TV. So the TV will only work. If the bike is going or people who hide their TV in a closet, if you want to watch TV, you have to take the TV out of the closet. So it makes it harder. Right? So those are silly and they're fun. And you know, if you want to do something like that, go for it.
[15:25] But for the most part, his point is. I don't think, bring crap into the house that you don't want to eat. If you want to exercise, make a date because fitness buddy join a community like that class, you're talking about as amazing. So you have to. Maybe the best word to say is you have to be intentional.
[15:42] You have to look at your schedule, you have to plan it in. You have to look at your life and say like, where are going to be my roadblocks? W like, what can I do that takes into account what's real. And how can I set that real life? Up for success. And then if it depends on mic and you have kids home from school real is probably not going to be a three-hour bike ride, but real might be putting on some music and dancing with your kids.
[16:04] Right. They're probably needing some exercise as well. You know, really busy at work real might be taking conference calls as you're walking. So I think the key is to remember what my. Always a solution and being active has to be thought of as a non-negotiable, but how you're acting is up to you and will depend on the season in your life and your goals and your life realities and your financial realities.
[16:26] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. And absolutely, and most people say I don't have time, but you could find a way there's always a solution. You can combine things, you can do your conference calls while you're walking, you can get a treadmill desk, you know, There's always a way to, to find your mix. And so it's not just about the fitness mix, but the other thing that, that I know a lot of my clients struggle with is nutrition, right?
[16:50] Eating the right foods, eating the healthy foods. We know what we're supposed to be eating, but we're eating the wrong things. Why, why is that something. Oh,
[17:00] Kathleen Trotter: wait. So what you said earlier, go with me. This does connect. You said something about like, people always say they're busy, but you can always find a solution.
[17:08] So I think part of what we get into with nutrition and fitness is this black or white thinking. It's like either I have time for everything or I have time for nothing. And the same thing happens with nutrition. It's like either. 30 day cleanse and I'm being perfect or I'm sitting and watching Netflix and watching the, and eating the entire bucket of ice cream.
[17:26] So I think a lot of what it is is again, is remembering that it's not a light switch. It's a dimmer switch. Health is not either something you have, or you don't have. You're always. Ebbing and flowing, and you just want to be trending in the right direction. Right? If they give it like the stock market, it's not going to be a linear experience.
[17:42] Your health is not going to go in one night from everything like everything unhealthy to everything healthy, that this is not how it works. And you're always going to have better, worst days, you're going to have better worse days of eating and exercise, but you want to be ebbing and flowing in that upward direction.
[17:57] Um, and you need. To figure out with nutrition ways that you could make it sustainable as with fitness and ways you can get out of yourself, sabotaging mindset. Like so much of nutrition is the things that we, that evil roommate in our head, right. From being at the grocery store and saying like, oh, Totally resist eating all of those fudge bars.
[18:17] And I say that because this is, I love French fries and like the devil on my shoulders, always like you can bring those home. You're a personal trainer. You can eat one a week for the next six weeks. Totally cool. And then I get home and of course I can't do that. Part of it is knowing when that sort of negative brain propaganda or self-sabotaging thoughts come into your brain and what your flavor of self-sabotage is.
[18:39] So you can nip that in the bud. Right? And then again, we go back to systems, like if you know that that's something you always do. If you always eat all the foods. I just don't bring the French fries into my house. So very similarly to stay on your nutrition horse is similar to just finding your health, like fitness horse.
[18:55] They're the similar, you have to find the middle ground and ways to talk yourself out of self-sabotaging from the all or nothing. So that would be one, this
[19:04] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: is a real struggle for people
[19:05] Kathleen Trotter: because with everything in life, right? Like just in general, like.
[19:09] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Yeah, we talked to the, like this black and white mentality and I have clients and Dave, if you're listening, you, you know, I'm talking to you because we always joke about this and in some of our group coaching calls, but, but I think the audience everybody can really relate to this is if I can't do a full workout, whatever your full workout is for somebody, right.
[19:27] Maybe it's an hour long. So let's say I only have 15 minute. Well, if I can't do a full one, I'm not doing anything.
[19:34] Kathleen Trotter: Or like, well, if I don't know what the perfect food is like, well, if I don't know if I can add GSEs and flax and you know what this nutritionist said, I should be doing no protein. And this is, I should be doing all protein or no fat or whatever, then you know what I'm going to do.
[19:46] I'm going to have a burger and fries because screw everything. And it's like, well, that doesn't make any sense if you can't do you don't know what the perfect food is? You absolutely know the burger and fries on white bed. And lots of salt is not the part like, so again, it's like, okay, Yeah, you can't, you maybe don't know what the ultimate perfect is.
[20:03] If there is even is an ultimate. Perfect. And I don't, I, that is a whole nother thing to completely debate, especially in nutrition. Right. But in general, like just being like, well, I know that I should be getting my grains. Okay. So let's have a salad or I know that. Absolutely not good for me, so let's not have that.
[20:19] Right. So it's part of it is just like maturity and being able to step back and pause. So I don't know about you. Do you work with the pause with your
[20:29] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: clients? That is one of my core tenets. So for the listeners, I knew we were meant to be friends. Yes. I know we keep finding these synergies, but like for my longtime list, You know what I'm going to say right now?
[20:42] So you can say it with me. It's the productive pause, this, this concept of the productive pause and the productive pause. We define it as a short period of focus, reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. So absolutely the pauses, if there's such a thing as the secret to success, I believe in that.
[20:59] So talk about your concept of the.
[21:02] Kathleen Trotter: Well, I just think that, especially with nutrition, but even with exercise, it's the key, because so often we let momentary desires derail us from our longterm success. Right. And so the pause, if you can take a pause and say, okay, what do I need versus what do I want? Right.
[21:20] Erica, what is going to serve me now and future, and often when you just even ask yourself that one little question, you can be like, okay, I want this, but I don't need it. And what's interesting about that is it'll be different for so many people. So for me often, actually, because I'm more. Overdo it like overexercising and not taking enough recovery and I've had injuries because I had to learn that.
[21:44] So for me often, what my pause is, is like, no, Kathleen, you told yourself this is a rest day. So go and have a bath or do some stretching. And so many people that the positive. Your brain says, oh, I don't want to exercise. I'm just too tired. And then you pause and you think, am I really tired or am I uninspired or am I tired?
[22:03] Or do I just feel like kind of block? Or am I angry at my boss? And it would feel really good to go do a boxing class or go for a run. The pause, as you said, lets you be productive and reflect on, you know, what are my desires and what are the things that are going to actually serve me? Because so often the problem is, is an emotion that the action is not actually going to serve.
[22:24] So if we're really sad, for example, right, often we just want to sit and eat, but the eating is just going to make you more sad. It's not going to make you feel better. So if you pause. What am I really feeling right now? Oh, I'm feeling sad. Okay. So what do I want? Okay. I want to sit and eat ice cream, but that's not going to help me.
[22:39] What do I need? Well, if I'm sad, I need to work on my sadness. So go for a walk and phone, a friend like that is what's actually going to address what I'm feeling now. I'm not arguing that any of this is easy because taking the pause is so challenging because in the moment, whatever you want, you really want it.
[22:55] So. Like anything, such a process and having systems in advance in place is really key. So no. Okay. You want food? What would be the system while you'd have to say to yourself? Okay. 30 minutes. I have to go do something. I have to get involved in something that takes my brain off, wanting the food, go do that for 99% of the time.
[23:17] Once you've done that, you forget that you want the food because you get doing a crafting project or you do a workout or you get talking to a friend. Right. But how. The self-talk that you're going to the, if then statement in your head. If this happens, if I want, if I want to skip my workout, what am I going to do?
[23:31] Oh, I'm going to email my trainer or my coach or my best friend and say, I want to skip a workout, but I'm not going to write just that injecting that pause, but also the action, like your. Pause and like stew in your thoughts, that's also not going to be helpful. Some people sort of stop it just pausing.
[23:48] And then they say, well, I pause Kathleen, but then I just don't really want it the cookie. So I ate it. So yes, it's a pause, but then you have to have something that you do in that pause. So maybe you put on some music and you dance around, but you got to change your state, your physiological state in some way, change your thought process.
[24:03] Disrupt what's going on in your brain. Um, and that could be journaling that could be phoning a friend that could be meditating that could be taking a couple of deep breaths, whatever. Like, is there something, what do you do? How do you manage your pause? Maybe that's a, that's a good question to ask you.
[24:15] So I,
[24:15] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: I just liked the concept of the question, right? That's the whole philosophy behind the productive pauses is the question, right. And you're talking about. Ask yourself a question like, do I really need this or does this serve me? Or how am I going to feel after like, if for the listener, just, just pick one of those questions.
[24:30] I mean, it's just, this is about being intentional. Hitting the pause button. It might be five seconds. It might be five seconds is all you need quick interruption. Hey, if you like what you're hearing, be sure to get the notes, quotes and links in the action plan from this episode, just go to JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. That's JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. To get your free copy of the action plan. Now, back to the show, there's one thing I want to drill down on that you said, and those you also said in your book that really jumped out off the page to me, was this idea of on your bad days. You need to move even more than on your good days.
[25:08] And if you're going to skip a workout, it's kind of okay. To some extent on, on your good day. Like if you feel good, you don't need to work in that today. You can skip it. Like it's the bad days when you really have to. Override the default, like I call it logically, overriding the default. And you're you, you talk about that.
[25:25] So go a little bit deeper on that for me please.
[25:30] Kathleen Trotter: Well, I will say that my favorite question to ask myself in my pause is how will your future self feel, hence the name of the second book, your fittest, future self. Like, I really find that very useful because I can say right, I want this in the moment. But my future self in five minutes and 10 minutes and 15 minutes and 20 years is going to be very happy if I go for my workout, if I have my salad.
[25:49] But part of how I know that is because I kept a mood journal. So I really, I love my therapist. I've been in therapy for 20 years and maybe the best thing that she ever did for me is she made me keep a mood journal for two weeks. And she said on a scale of one to 10, before you do your workout, You say I'm a one out of 10 or a 0.5 or 10 is really good.
[26:08] Zero is bad. And, um, and then after your workout, you put down what number you're at and what is wonderful about that is I have data now. So I'm a very science driven person. And so when I step into my pause and I say, what would my future self feel or want? I can literally say I have two weeks of data. Oh, after that, like 20 years of data to say, I always feel better when I move now that doesn't necessarily mean I go from a one to a 10, but I might go from a one to a 1.5 or I go to a one to a 1.1 and I feel proud and it is way better to be a 1.1 and feel proud than a one.
[26:44] You know, poop and that's the problem is if you feel like crap and you don't do your out, guess what? You're going to feel like more crap. It's not going to make you feel better. Right. And then you're going to go to bed at night. You're going to be like, oh my God, I should've worked out. I wish I'd worked out.
[26:56] And then you're probably not going to sleep as well because you're not going to be as tired. And then you're not gonna sleep as well. You're gonna get up the next day. You're gonna feel like more crap. You're going to have to get more coffee or sugar to get you going. And then the more coffee than the sugar, it's do another night of not very good sleep.
[27:08] Okay. Really bad spiral. And I can say all that to myself. And then I'm like, oh, well, you know what? Just like do your workout. And it doesn't even have to be, as you said, right. It doesn't have to be an hour, 10 minutes, five minutes, 15 minutes something. And I really, really, really live by that rule. And the more sort of depressed I feel, the more sad I am, the more angry I am or the more.
[27:30] Uncentered I am right. If you know, family can be hard and work can be hard and pandemic can be hard. So I just sort of say, okay, just move your body. There's so much that I don't control most things I don't control. Um, but I can control how I react to things and I can influence my outside world by the actions that I take, the exercise I do.
[27:51] I'm a, such a better partner to my, um, my partner, James and dog, mom, to our dog, all of, you know, daughter to my mom. Like I'm just a better overall human I'm calmer. I'm less reactive. And I know all that, but I think. But I want people to hear is I haven't always known all that. So if you're listening to food being like, oh, but like, I don't know that I hate exercising.
[28:11] It makes me feel sore and frustrated and tired, and I'm not good at it. And all that stuff. It's like, yeah, you gotta have a beginner's mind. Like we all start somewhere. But in order for you to have that data, You have to do the actions like Aristotle talks about like being, you know, building things to become a builder, right?
[28:26] So if you want the identity of a fit person, you have to act like a fit person. You have to, you know, James clear was a vote for the type of person you want your future self to be. And each time you go for a walk, that's a vote for that person. He should have you go for a walk at a block in your building of health and wellness.
[28:41] So then, you know, in six months or in a year or two months or whatever, you. I'm a fit person. I have that identity. And the more you believe in your identity, the stronger that identity is, the easier it is for you to exercise. So if it's hard right now, it's hard for you to have the vegetables. It's hard for you to exercise.
[28:58] You kind of have to take a little bit on faith that the more you do it, it might not be easier as in like your muscles might not feel better. I mean, they, hopefully they will, but it, but it will be easier in the way that you will know that we're feel good or you will feel proud or you. It's jiving with your values and your integrity and that's huge.
[29:18] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. I could resonate because this morning when my alarm went off at five. I felt like a zero, but by the time I got back from my run, I felt like at 10, you know, like you just don't feel like it so often, but I think, but again, you have to have that infrastructure, that framework that can help you override the default.
[29:36] And, and there's something else that you mentioned again and again, this is something I really found. Super helpful in the book and very much aligns with the way I think is, is the systems right? And going back to the sort of short workout, you know, the short workout question is like, you actually talked about having a plan for a workout as short as two minutes.
[29:58] And as long as I think you said 90 minutes, like you have that plan. So that's the thing. So for the listener, when you. In a situation where you're like, okay, I don't have an hour to go do my workout or the hour and a half that it takes for me to drive there 15 minutes and get changed and workout and come home and all that.
[30:13] But you already have a predetermined 20 minute workout. Like you just pull it up on your phone or you have. You have systems, is it helpful to have those kinds of systems and what other kinds of systems can we create to streamline things?
[30:27] Kathleen Trotter: Okay. I love it. So sort of three points, first of all, I so respect how prepared you are for this interview.
[30:32] So thank you so much. I really do appreciate it. That. And second, you're talking about the plug and play method for success, which I love it. Just taking into account that we all only have so much cognitive energy. And part of what happens is yeah, we have 10 minutes, but then we're like, oh my God, should we do this or this or this?
[30:48] And by the time you sort of thought about is that analysis process you've lost the. So if you've just taken time in advance to create a list of, okay, if I have five minutes, I can put on a song and dance and you have a song picked out that you might dance to. Or if I have 20 minutes, I might do an AMRAP workout or five 30.
[31:03] I would do, you know, like a full body strength workout and have them plan. It's about recognizing that we're human beings, we're not robots and we all have certain realities. Right. And one of the reality is, is that we have certain amount of cognitive space and we have a lot of stuff going on in there.
[31:18] So instead of having the 10 minutes and then not being able to use it, cause you can't sort of figure out what to do and then shaming yourself for it in advance. Like, okay, I'm a human being. I have a certain amount of cognitive energy. So how do I set myself up for success? It's really just very practical.
[31:32] Um, and taking out the shame and. I don't know. I love telling the story of a deceased, cause I think sometimes people are like systems. Like what do you mean by that? So systems are things that you do to constrain your future self or to help your future self make choices that you're going to be proud of.
[31:45] So there's a Greek myth of a DCS and the sirens. And so basically every single sailor had come before him, Odysseus had been like, yeah, those sailors they're, you know, sexy and they've gotten every other sail, but they're not going to get in strong enough. There pull. Right? And then they go out on the water and the sirens would pull them in and the boat would get, you know, go to the sirens and then they wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't make their mission.
[32:07] So if you think about you are the sailor and the sirens are the cookies or the missed work, you know, the work that that says, like, you don't have to, you know, you can skip, it's fine. Right. So if you appreciate that, you're always going to have sirens in your life because life is busy, then you have to be deceased.
[32:20] So what a DCS said was, okay, there are going to be sirens. I'm not going to be able to resist those sirens. Um, and so. I need a system and the system was, he tied himself up. So when the sirens went and he wanted to go towards them, Right. And again, therefore he didn't have the shame afterwards. Therefore he didn't beat himself up.
[32:39] Right. When he looked at what had come before him, he got data, he had a growth mindset. He appreciated that he was human, not robot, and he set himself up for success. So that's when we talk about systems, that's what I want the listeners to do. That's what I want my readers to do. That's what I want my clients to do.
[32:55] Um, and the systems are. Anything that is going to help your future self. So it could be, you know, your group of men that you go meet that as a system, having a fitness buddy as a system, but it could be somebody like having an accountability buddy. So maybe you don't actually want to meet and work out with somebody, but you want to have a friend that, you know, once a week, you email back and forth and you say, here are my goals.
[33:14] It could be creating a family challenge. So it's like everyone has to get a certain amount of steps. Whoever gets the most steps, get to choose family movie night. It could be, you know, putting something up on your fridge where every time you do a cardio workout, you get to like a red dot and every time you do a strength workout, you get a green dot.
[33:28] And as soon as you accumulate a certain amount of dots, then you, you know, you get some type of non-food related prize. Like, I don't know, it's a nice new bubble bath or whatever it is that floats your boat. Right? A new fitness toy.
[33:39] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Yeah. You could order on AMA. You could probably have food delivered once a week.
[33:42] You could have a basket of vegetables delivered automatically. Cause you can get food delivered to your house. Now you can create these.
[33:49] Kathleen Trotter: Exactly. That's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful system. I'm glad that you brought that up. Right? So for a lot of people, this isn't is don't go to the grocery store, order food.
[33:58] Cause you're less likely to order your groceries because you're less likely to go and just be like, oh, that bag of chips is nice with that. Or have those meal prep kits that get delivered to your house that are like, you know, so then you don't have to buy a bunch of parsley and throw out half of it.
[34:09] It's like you only get delivered the amount of parsley that need for your meal kit or, you know, so there's so many ways to do it. And if you're listening and you're kind of overwhelmed, I don't know what, like what ways should I do interview yourself? Say what in the past has worked? Have I enjoyed being part of a sports team?
[34:24] Okay. Do that. Do I really like having a goal of it? You said a Spartan race. That's a great system. If you have a goal, then you have to train for the goal, you know, this year. So I was feeling, you know, January 1st came and I was like, oh my God, like another year I was feeling a little bit, blah. And so I was like, I need a new system.
[34:39] I need something that is going to make my future self, you know, be motivated to move. And you know, I also need some variety. I was getting very bored because. Again, I'm not seeing very many people. I love my Peloton. I have a Peloton. So what I did was I created an Excel spreadsheet. It took me like two hours of every single different class at Peloton offers and every single different instructor.
[34:59] And that includes all the German instructors, all the Spanish instructors, all the different classes from yoga to Pilates, to bar, but not just like a bike class, like literally like, you know, there's 30 different types of biking class. Cause you can do like power zone, endurance and power zone max. And I'm not saying anybody else needs to do this, but what I'm saying is for me, It was such an amazing system because now every time I try a new class, I get to put an X on my Excel spreadsheet and I feel super good.
[35:24] And every time I try new instructor, it's a little bit different than I used to always do. Cody. I love coding people who are pals on people will, you know, We will hopefully know who he is. He's amazing. I have a mug that has a quote from him on it. I have a t-shirt if I love him, but I was always doing him.
[35:40] So now I've tried, you know, multiple new people. So it, it, it infused me with energy. It made me excited again to work out and it was my solution and my system again, and I'm not arguing that it would work for anybody else, but I am saying, as people listen, they could think like, oh, What would work for me.
[35:58] And that's what I want people to get. Like you said, your class works for you, right? You said Spartan workout, seven runs work for you marathon. That's great. A lot of people are going to hate that. Cool. My dad plays hockey. That's awesome. I don't like hockey, but for him playing hockey four times a week means he also does it strength training, because he needs to like balance and agility to play hockey.
[36:17] My mom loves yoga. She has two dogs and they require a lot of walking, like. That's my mom and my dad, but they both are very active. And again, all that matters is that you find what works for you and what fits your body and something that you can do consistently, because the benefits of the best, anything, our mood, if you don't do it.
[36:37] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: And so what does failure have to do with all of this? I mean, because you know, the failure, you know, kind of going back to where we started, the failure creates the doubt. I mean, is this just a process of being okay to fail? Whether it's our fitness mix, our nutrition mix, our mindset mix. I mean, do we just have to be prepared to try things?
[36:58] Kathleen Trotter: Yes. And I also think that we need to even unpack statements like failure makes the doubt because the truth is, it all depends on your mindset, right? For some people they fail and it makes them stronger. It makes them, you know, they fall down and they're like, oh my God. I just felt like for me, whenever, you know, with the COVID stuff, I, the, my phrase to everybody is you think I'm going to let COVID with, I'm so mad at it.
[37:19] Like, I am not going to let it bring me down. Many other things will bring me down, but I'm going to be fitter after COVID. Fricking like what a punch it in face. Right. So I think the thing about it is thoughts are not facts. Thoughts are not acts, emotions are not facts. Emotions are just data, things that happen.
[37:37] There's always a crossroads. There's always two paths that we could take and we can fail and we can say, okay, Is doubt or we can fail. And because they failure is data, right? So there's always going to be, you can miss a workout and you can say, oh man, I'm destined to be a slob. And why even try it? I'm going to go sit on the sofa or you can say, oh, I missed a workout.
[37:56] Interesting that's data. Was I too tired? Did I not set myself up for six? Was I trying to do a workout. I didn't like, I, we talk about the www H of workouts or the, when the, what, the, where, and the how and the, how is the piece that most people don't look at, right? Like, how am I going to make it happen? Do it, does my wife need to take the kids in the morning so I can work out in the morning?
[38:16] And then I take the kids at night so she can look at like, how, what are the accommodations, what has to happen? Right. So if you fail, maybe that's just giving you data that right now, you don't have the right accommodations. So I really think that the trick to remember is most things in life are pretty neutral.
[38:32] It's how we think about them. That gives them the power. And if you think about failure as something that is going to bring you down, it's going to bring you down. You know, if you think about these two paths and one is 100% going to give you more of what you don't need, right? Like I missed a workout. Oh, well, I'm a failure.
[38:49] I might as well, miss more workout. So that's path to the left now path. You know, to that idea of yeah. We'll failure is data. It's not that that is then going to give you a perfect outcome. Right? There's a lot of really good processes that don't end in the perfect result, but at least it sets you up to possibly get the good product.
[39:05] Right. And the process. Only thing you can control, you cannot control the product, but you can set yourself up to have the best product possible by controlling your process. And then I also just think it really ties back into what we started with, which is realistic expectations. Like if you say to yourself, I'm never going to fail.
[39:23] Well, you might as well dig your grave. Like you just can't. There's no one who doesn't fail now. There's massive failures. Like I lost my house and then there's many failures. Like I missed my workout. And now, instead of doing the run, I'm going to walk my kids to. Right. And so obviously, as we've also talked about, like, it's a matter of degrees, so, you know, I'm not wishing massive failure on anybody, but small failures, you know, are part of every single day and you got to just sort of say, okay, I fall, I get back up.
[39:50] I course, correct. Quickly. Right. And I learn from the experience. Everything is an opportunity for learning.
[39:58] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: So for the listener who is sitting there saying, Kathleen, I get it. I'm bought in. I love this mentality. I love the mindset. I love this philosophy. Can you crystallize this into action items? Like maybe one or two things that the listener can do in the next, say 24 to 48 hours to start taking action on what we talked about here today?
[40:18] Kathleen Trotter: I think the first thing right now is to find something you could. In this moment to make you feel like you've taken a step forward. So even just get a glass of water, go for 10 minute walk, put on a piece of music, dance around, whatever that idea of like this moment is all we have control over and it will be something small.
[40:33] And then sit down and look at your schedule and plan it in, schedule it. And if it is not in the schedule, it is not going to happen. So schedule in some things that you can do over the week, they don't have to, it doesn't have to be perfect. Not going to be perfect. It's just the start you iterate and you grow.
[40:47] Okay. Try to troubleshoot at least one thing in advance that you need to figure out the how for it. Right? Like, so schedule things in, but then say, okay, this, you know, might come up like on this Wednesday. Okay. I have this workout, but like, if I have a work meeting, what will be my plan B, so schedule things in and then just create a couple of plan BS.
[41:09] So that you, when that happens, because that's going to happen, like, you know, talk with my clients at the idea of GPS in your health, right? Like you have a route that you're going to take and hopefully 99% of the time that route will, will work out. But there will be times where there will be, you know, metaphorical traffic on your health route, and you have to have an alternative route.
[41:26] So when you're done the podcast, You do one healthy thing, like a glass of water or some vegetables or whatever. And then you sit down and you schedule in some workouts and you schedule in some planning time, right? Some prep time, like on Sunday, are you going to cut up vegetables? Are you going to order the meal, kit service?
[41:43] Are you going to order vegetables like a food delivery? Like, you know, all of your vegetables, all of your foods, all of your, you know, like your food for the week. So scheduling. Perhaps time and work at time and then write down one, if then statement one, plan B, one thing that you can do when life throws you lemons and how can you make the, make the lemonade
[42:03] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: excellent for the listeners, everything that Kathleen just shared, there's going to be in the action plan and you can go to JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION.
[42:10] To get that Kathleen work in the listeners find you follow you, buy your books.
[42:16] Kathleen Trotter: Uh, KathleenTrotter.com is my website. And by Kathleen T is all of my social. So, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram kind of thing. So reach out. I love having questions and I'd love to talk to anybody that has any health and wellness stuff on their mind.
[42:31] Jim Harhsaw, Jr.: Excellent. Thank you so much, Kathleen. Thanks for listening. If you want to apply these principles into your life, let's talk, you can see the limited spaces that are open on my account. JimHarshawJr.com/APPLY, where you can sign up for a free one-time coaching call. With me. And don't forget to grab your action plan. Just go to JimHarshawJr.com/ACTION. And lastly, iTunes tends to suggest podcasts with more ratings and reviews more often. You would totally make my day. If you give me a rating and review those go a long way in helping me grow the podcast audience. Just open up your podcast app. If you have an iPhone, do a search for “Success Through Failure, select, and then scroll the whole way to the bottom where you can leave the podcast, a rating and a review. Now I hope this isn't just another podcast episode for you. I hope you take action on what you learned here today. Good luck, and thanks for listening.
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