[00:00] D.J. Vanas: Sundance is highlighted a little bit in that, in the book too, one of the ceremonies that we do for Thanksgiving and to give respect for the pain that women go through in childbirth by push, push, pushing. We as men pull, pull, pull. We pierce our chest and we’re tied to a tree and we pull, go up and back four times and on the fourth time we dance backwards until we rip free.

[00:20] D.J. Vanas: And the symbology there is

[00:23] Jim Harshaw Jr.: welcome to another episode of success for the athletic minded man, real talk, unharnessing your athletic drive for clarity, consistency, and focus in business and life. This is your host, Jim Harshaw, Jr. And today I bring you DJ Eagle Bear Vanas. always sorting through so much email that I get about people trying to get onto my podcast and I say no to almost every single one of them.

[00:52] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And what I’m really looking for is recommendations, referrals from people who I know, like and trust like my good friend, Ruben Gonzalez, four time Olympian and Ruben is a, he’s been Spoken all over the world. It’s on some of the biggest stages and Ruben knows good people when he sees them and he knows DJ Vannis and DJ is our guest today.

[01:14] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Just an incredible guy. He is a thought leader himself. He’s an author. He’s a speaker. He has. Published multiple books. He’s a best selling author. He’s an enrolled member of the Ottawa tribe. He’s a former U S air force officer, uh, for over 20 years, he’s delivered programs to clients like Walt Disney and NASA Intel, the U S military, Amazon, all state Mayo clinic.

[01:40] Jim Harshaw Jr.: He’s delivered to presentations over 500 tribal nations. He’s been invited to speak at the white house, not once. But twice, DJ also has his own PBS special called discovering your warrior spirit. He’s been on media outlets such as NBC, the daily stoic podcast, Forbes, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, I could go on men’s journal.

[02:03] Jim Harshaw Jr.: This guy is the real deal. He’s not just peddling a book or some concept. I mean, this guy lives it. He lives it. And he is so, so deep and profound in what he shares here today. And. I want you to really listen to what DJ has to say and find ways to incorporate this into your life. You’ll be better off for it.

[02:21] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So, all right, here we go. This is my interview with DJ Vannis. So Air Force Academy graduates delivering programs to NASA, to Disney. You’re a bestselling author. You’re a contributing writer for Forbes. This is not a typical path for A kid who was born to teenage impoverished parents. Why was your path different?

[02:50] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Oh my gosh. We’re starting off

[02:51] D.J. Vanas: right out of the gate with a good one. Yeah, man.

[02:54] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Gotten to the core right away.

[02:56] D.J. Vanas: It was definitely not been a traditional path to say the least. No, growing up the way that I did, it made me hungry to want to do something more. My parents were. Teenagers in poverty when they had me growing up things in my family that we had, we had broken homes, unemployment, drug and alcohol addiction, suicides, incarcerations, you name it, we had it in my family.

[03:17] D.J. Vanas: And so growing up that way and looking around the world, I grew up seeing things through a lens of saying, well, I don’t know all the things that I want to do with my life, but I know that there’s got to be more out there. And it got me on a path of pushing myself hard in school, pushing myself hard in athletics.

[03:35] D.J. Vanas: You know, it was, I think, really where it started changing as reading, starting to read biographies. Believe it or not, when I was 11, first one I read was Chief Joseph, second was Teddy Roosevelt. I’ve been reading them ever since, because I’m constantly, you know, I’m still fascinated by what makes people tick, you know, why we hold somebody in high esteem, how they got there.

[03:55] D.J. Vanas: And when you read these people’s stories, whoever it is that you admire and want to emulate in your own life, you realize these people had a journey of pain. Challenge falling on their face, doubting themselves, the process. And yet somehow, some way they kept taking one foot in front of the other and got to be where we hold them in this high level of esteem.

[04:14] D.J. Vanas: And that always fascinated me. And so that was the path, you know, that kind of got me fully engaged in school, led me to get an appointment to the Air Force Academy, which, which was, uh, my number one pick for the eight colleges I applied to. Uh, so that was a blessing. And, you know, one of the things I want to do is become a fighter pilot.

[04:34] D.J. Vanas: That’s, that was my goal. I was a licensed pilot all through high school. What planted that seed? My dad ruined my life at 13. He took me for an orientation flight in a small Cessna for my birthday. Of course, tongue in cheek, you know, like changed everything. But they created a monster. Cause as soon as I landed, I could not get that out of my head.

[04:52] D.J. Vanas: And I begged for over a month, please let me take flying lessons. Please. I’ll do anything, you know, and finally they, they relented and they said, look, if you want to do this, you got to keep all your grades A’s and B’s you have to stay out of trouble and you have to make all your own money to do it. And they thought that third one was going to be the deal breaker.

[05:08] D.J. Vanas: And I said, Nope, deal. Let’s do it. And man, I scooped up dog doo doo, mowed yards, babysat, whatever I could do to make money and started flying when I was 13. So soloed when I was 16, pilot’s license at 17. I knew how to fly an airplane very well before I ever learned how to drive a car. Which is scary, you know, it’s like I, I had to be dropped off at the airport by my mom.

[05:33] D.J. Vanas: you,

[05:34] Jim Harshaw Jr.: somebody drives you to the airport because you can’t drive. You could go fly a plane only in America. That’s nuts. Yeah, it’s

[05:38] D.J. Vanas: nuts. . But it changed my life. It made me hungry. It uh, it got me really engaged in school. I had a purpose. I had a focus. I go to the Air Force Academy, second week of basic training.

[05:48] D.J. Vanas: They said you were never gonna fly anything but a desk. Your eyes are terrible. How did you even make it in the office kind of thing? And it was devastating. It was devastating. I sat out in the stairwell for two hours and cried my eyes out. I had a shaved head and I do not look good bald. I looked like a squirrel monkey and I sat out there miserable.

[06:06] D.J. Vanas: And I said, well, what do I do now? You know, my dream is over. I prepared for this for four years of my life. I mean, I put a lot of, you know, blood, sweat and tears into this process. People were out partying on the weekends. I’m flying. I’m reading books to pass tests and stay current and active. Yeah. This is what you’re made for.

[06:23] D.J. Vanas: That’s it. That’s, that was my whole goal. And so when that changed, uh, it was devastating. I started realizing, well, I started doing a quick assessment. And I said, well, you know. I’m here at a great institution. I’m on a federally funded scholarship to graduate. I’m already making really good friends. You know, the harder you work with other people besides you, the tighter those bonds get and the quicker they form.

[06:49] D.J. Vanas: And I said, besides, I’m. I’m bald right now and I look horrible and I don’t want to go home looking like this. I’ll at least wait until the hair grows out. You know, four years later, I’m throwing my hat up. The Thunderbirds are screaming over and we’re graduating. I stayed back at the academy, recruited for a year, and would go out and spread the good word about the Air Force Academy, the path to officership.

[07:08] D.J. Vanas: In the air force. And I found that I loved it. I never knew that this was a path I would do professionally, but that’s where the seed was planted. And I would go out and tell these stories and share milestones and what it was like to go to combat survival school and jump out of an airplane and go through the air force Academy and the rigors that required.

[07:26] D.J. Vanas: And I found that I loved it, so I stayed with speaking on the side, got into my career field in space warfare in the Air Force, got my master’s degree at University of Southern Cal, but I kept speaking on the side, not knowing what I would ever do with it. All I knew is I loved it, and I loved being able to help people and inspire people and share my stories, hopefully in a way that triggers them to do more in their own path.

[07:48] D.J. Vanas: And I had an opportunity to start doing it. Full time when I went back to the academy and became chief of the minority enrollment office, which is the office of diversity now, but I ran the office that I worked for and it put me back out on the circuit again. And that’s when I made a decision. I said, this is what I feel I was meant to do.

[08:09] D.J. Vanas: And so I got out of the military, started doing this full time and it’s been, you know, A crazy, you know, wild journey of ups and downs, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. And it’s, it’s a blessing to do this type of work at this level. And it’s been amazing, but totally unexpected and glad I found my path when I did.

[08:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. So I want to unpack your story a little bit, cause you shared a lot there growing up, you know, impoverished teenage parents and you said there’s alcoholism and suicide and all these negative influences all around you. Like you could have gone either way. And a lot of people go the wrong way. Was there a mentor or was there a moment you witnessed something or like what put you on a path that maybe wouldn’t be the default for, I think, a lot of people.

[08:57] D.J. Vanas: Yeah, that’s a great question. And this is what always fascinates me about reading other people’s biographies too. What was it? There was a couple of things. One is I had great mentorship. My parents had incredible work ethics, both of them. They came from a background that they really struggled, especially early on.

[09:12] D.J. Vanas: In our family’s journey and made a lot of work to rear ends off, made a lot of sacrifices. I paid attention to that. You know, my mom became a career nurse, went back to school later in life. My dad was career military. I saw what it was to be in service to others and how tough that was, but how fulfilling that was.

[09:29] D.J. Vanas: And the important, it was had some great teachers along the way that I will never forget that shaped me into who I became today. And I’m very grateful for all of them and most of them drove me absolutely nuts, but those are the ones that you remember the ones that kick your rear end.

[09:44] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Anyone’s in particular that you remember any, any words or any specific moments that you can remember that a teacher might’ve poured India.

[09:50] D.J. Vanas: Miss Karana. I got to see her for the last time last summer. I went back to where I grew up in Blex, Mississippi, got to see her in person. It was beautiful. She’s passed away a few months after that, but it was just to be able to see her one more time and to thank her in person for the influence she had.

[10:07] D.J. Vanas: She was my sophomore English teacher. And I thought her job was to make me miserable. She and I went round and round that whole year and she was very tough. She made me rewrite papers and you know, do things over and just never gave me a break. And all these years later, when my first book came out, I want to thank the people that helped me get there.

[10:28] D.J. Vanas: And of course her name pops up into the list. And, you know, you think at 15, those people were there to drive you nuts. And as an adult, you realize they had been the best gift for you. Uh, they got you to see things in yourself that you didn’t know were there. Things that, by the way, that have had a tremendous effect on the way that I contribute to the world, the way that I take care of family, myself, it’s one of those things that you look back with gratitude, but she’s one of, you know, a handful of teachers that really made an indelible mark on my life in a very positive, meaningful way.

[10:59] D.J. Vanas: Forever grateful for those folks.

[11:02] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Quick interruption. Hey, if you like what you’re hearing, be sure to get the notes, quotes, and links in the action plan from this episode. Just go to Jim Herschel, jr. com slash action. That’s Jim Herschel, jr. com slash action to get your free copy of the action plan. Now back to the show.

[11:20] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So I want to relate this directly for the listener. Cause the listener is, you know, probably an adult thirties, forties, fifties male professional. And you’re like, okay, what does this have to do with me? Well, think about where you’re at. Like I have so many clients who we work with in our coaching program.

[11:37] Jim Harshaw Jr.: That no, there’s more, no, there’s better. No, there’s something else. No, that they have more in them. And what they’re doing now is, well, maybe it’s okay. They know there’s something more. And for you, the listener, like, look around, like there’s a way out for you too. And for DJ mentioned education and, and. And you might be thinking, well, I already got my college degree.

[11:58] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Well, no, like what is the education that you need now? Is it a course that you have to sign up for? Is it a coach that you have to hire? Is it a program that you have to commit to? Or are you just going to stay the course now? Because the problem is what got you here won’t get you there.

[12:16] D.J. Vanas: Right, right. It’s two things, Jim.

[12:18] D.J. Vanas: I mean, that’s a great point. It’s education and environment. You know, and yeah, education goes way beyond the degrees we earned, no matter how good the school was, education is everywhere you can gather it. It’s in books, it’s in videos, it’s in our own personal journey. It’s in conversations we have with other people.

[12:34] D.J. Vanas: Mentorship is critical to our success. You know, when we’re able to be around people who not only give us a vision of what better could look like, but expect us to get there, you know, having that accountability with, you know, the friends that I have, my inner circle is very tight and it’s by design. I know a lot of people, I know you do too, but who I surround myself with, I know matters at an Elver tell me this years ago, he said, our spirits are like sponges.

[13:00] D.J. Vanas: They soak up whatever they’re around. So we’re responsible for becoming our own. Environmental engineer, you know, so who I hang around with are people that are smarter than me, sharper than me, you know, that are competitive in a good way. In a positive way, we compete with each other all the time, not at each other’s expense, but to lift each other up.

[13:18] D.J. Vanas: And these people are priceless in my life. I mean, this is one of the biggest things, one of the most important elements, I think, in creating a life of success. However, you define that is surrounding yourself with the right people. It

[13:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: truly matters. My clients who are listening right now are saying, Jim, say Jim, tell him, tell him we have a component to our coaching program.

[13:38] Jim Harshaw Jr.: That’s called environment of excellence. And a big piece of that is the people like, who are the people you’re around? Like, you know, when I trained at the Olympic training center, I was around world class athletes. It just raises your game. Like you’re just a sponge. You’re just absorbing. Even if you’re not like consciously aware, which you are obviously consciously aware of a lot of things like the training and the kind of things that are going on, but leave it at an unconscious level.

[14:00] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You’re like, you hear how they’re talking. You see what they’re eating in the dining hall. You see how they’re interacting with their coach and all of this. It’s just filtering into you by osmosis and you have to craft that at this point in our lives as a kid, you know, you couldn’t really control that you were in this environment in these schools where, you know, bad things were happening, but now we get to control this, we get to define this, we get to choose who we spend our time with, choose our inner circle like you, I mean, so yeah, that’s, that’s really important.

[14:34] D.J. Vanas: I think sometimes too, Jim, it comes down to an insecurity. Like we get to a certain level of, and this can be our curse. We get to a certain level of success, whatever it is that we do. And we, you know, we don’t want to admit that, Hey, there’s a lot more in the tank. You know, because it, you know, it’s an insecurity thing.

[14:52] D.J. Vanas: We don’t want to ask for help or ask somebody, how do you do this even better, because we get to a certain point where we almost paint ourselves into a corner and you know, that the ego gets in the way, right. Instead of stripping it down and saying, Hey, there’s so much more I want to learn. You know, I see what you’re doing at your level.

[15:08] D.J. Vanas: How did you get there? You know, any advice for me, how I, you know, that’s really what it comes down to is allowing that to be able to put that aside and just keep the goal in mind. That the goal is always to become better, no matter how good we’ve been, no matter how much we’ve struggled, we can always do better going forward, always under any circumstance, regardless of resources, and even if it’s by inches.

[15:30] D.J. Vanas: But we can’t do that when we’re on worst enemy, where we don’t reach out and ask for help or say, Hey, I don’t know all the answers here. What I’m doing is working, but I know it’s not the only model and there’s probably something better. We have to keep the doors of schoolhouse open for a lifetime. It’s just can’t ever get to a point where you say, I’ve done enough.

[15:46] D.J. Vanas: I’ve learned enough. You know, I’ve got this figured out. That’s, that’s the moment we start getting old and getting inflexible.

[15:53] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. And it’s easy to do, especially. You know, you get busy with life and you kind of just kind of get into a groove. That’s actually a rut, but you can’t tell, and you just kind of repeat yesterday and you do the same thing today for no better reason than that’s what you did yesterday.

[16:09] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And, and then you continue on and you don’t really take the time to step back, evaluate, ask the question, say, Hey, who do I need to maybe keep at arm’s length? Who do I need to. You know, get around more. What’s the education I need to commit to, whether it’s an online course or program to sign up for joint toast masters and improve your public speaking, whatever it is for the listener.

[16:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like you have to actually take action on this stuff. Otherwise it doesn’t happen by default.

[16:35] D.J. Vanas: You do. I mean, that’s every time I look back at incidents that that pushed me up to a different level, it comes back to that dynamic. It really does. And, you know, I’m an enrolled member of the Little River Band of Ottawa Indians from Michigan.

[16:47] D.J. Vanas: So growing up being a tribal member, two of the biggest, you know, mentors I had that really inspired me because I got to see, you know, This through a different lens is what successful looks like in that world. You know, like Howard Vernier was a late great mentor of mine, phenomenal speaker, super energetic native, Billy Mills, Olympic gold medalist.

[17:09] D.J. Vanas: He was one of those guys that, again, he gave me an endorsement for my first book. He didn’t have to do that, but we, we connected and I looked at him as a hero. I mean that, you know, the movie that they made about his life, you know, when I was a kid, I watched that and then years later, I’m, I’m meeting this hero in real life.

[17:27] D.J. Vanas: And I always say, be careful when you meet your heroes, not with Billy Mills. He fit those shoes and then some, uh, blew me away, but to be able to see a successful native man doing this pursuit. Was also another thing that played connect the dots in my mind of, you know, if they can do it, maybe there’s a chance for me to, but if we’re never in that type of environment where we allow ourselves to think differently, act differently, we don’t do differently.

[17:54] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You talk about the moment at the Air Force Academy where they said, the only thing you’re going to fly is a desk and, you know, your, your dream is crushed for the listener out there who may be, maybe they had their dream crushed. 20 years ago, or maybe they had their dream crushed yesterday. Maybe it’s the huge dream, like the life dream, or, or maybe it’s just, gosh, I thought I was going to sign up that client and I failed my goodness.

[18:23] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I guess I’m just not good at this. What do you say to them?

[18:26] D.J. Vanas: Yeah, yeah, this is tough because we can catastrophize really quickly. You know, we can get kind of sucked in the swirl of that, you know, that negative mindset when something like this happens where something gets derailed. And, and again, I wish I would have had that skillset when it first happened, because I was miserable, you know, and didn’t know what I was going to do, but I’m glad I made the decision I did, you know, to stay, uh, made all the difference.

[18:49] D.J. Vanas: But. Now, when something happens where things don’t go according to plan, things fall apart, whatever it may be, you know, you get to ask yourself questions, you know, like, what story am I telling myself about what I’m going through right now? Uh, you get to ask questions like, what’s good about this? How can I leverage this into something even better?

[19:07] D.J. Vanas: What can I learn going forward? How can I do this? People get into that criticism mode where we start beating ourselves up for what we didn’t do. I have the same philosophy, never, ever, ever criticize yourself. You’ve got the whole world to do that for you. It’s important to point out our areas of improvement, but for crying out loud, when things don’t go right, and that’s half a life.

[19:27] D.J. Vanas: If we’re out there doing anything, we got to just be able to say, Hey, how can I do this better? And keep moving forward. You learn as you go. There’s no mistakes. It’s all learning. If we look at it through that mindset and it keeps us going through the next thing. What we don’t want to do is yeah, take the wrong lesson out of that moment, which is maybe this wasn’t for me.

[19:45] D.J. Vanas: Maybe I’m not good enough. Maybe I was crazy to even think it in the first place. You know, Mark Twain has a great quote about a cat on a hot stove. He said, a cat on a hot stove will never again, get on a hot stove is, but they won’t ever get on a cold one either. You know, it’s like, you’re taking the wrong lesson out of that moment.

[20:03] D.J. Vanas: Now we don’t try anything anymore. You know, I was like, I’ll just completely avoid that. But everything that I’ve done, I mean, creating the business, writing the books that I wrote, there’s just been infinite amounts of challenges, self doubt falling down on your face. You know, the time where we did a CD project years ago, you know, audio CDs.

[20:21] D.J. Vanas: And it was my responsibility to review the print on the back of the case. And I was in, I was busy. I was in a hurry. I didn’t think it really mattered that much. And so we printed 2000 copies with the wrong, that was a lot of money that went down the drain that I had to get them reprinted and, uh, they cut me a discount and it was still a lot.

[20:44] D.J. Vanas: And, you know, you look at those moments and, you know, you can get frustrated, but you know, you look at it later and you’re like, well, I learned something there, attention to detail matters. It always has, but I’m just saying you get stung like that. It really makes you remember that, but it’s, it’s all learning.

[21:02] D.J. Vanas: You learn as you go. We’re all works

[21:03] Jim Harshaw Jr.: in progress. You talked about service earlier in this, this sort of service mindset. I know that’s something that you adopt. I mean, how can the listener really adopt that service mindset when, you know, gosh, they’re busy, right? All day long, they’re busting their butt.

[21:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: They’re working the 50, 60 hour weeks and busy, maybe with the family at home. And they’re trying to fit in maybe some time to work out or some, some alone time, but man, Where does service come into this? Well, services,

[21:36] D.J. Vanas: all those things. When we look at service, sometimes people look at it as community service.

[21:39] D.J. Vanas: Some people look at it as military service. Some people look at it as service you do for your, your religious groups. It’s, it’s all that and more. It’s the service we provide our clients. That we provide our friends, a service that we provide ourselves when we talk about downtime or self care, but service is that core component of why I think we are here.

[22:00] D.J. Vanas: If we are not put here to serve others. Why are we here at all? Now, this is a core component of what I share in my programs, because this goes back to the traditional warrior path in our tribal communities. My tribe, we call a warrior, Ogichida, and that term has little to nothing to do with what we see on TV and in movies.

[22:18] D.J. Vanas: You know, it’s not that sweaty, chiseled figure knocking down buildings with bazookas and knocking down bad guys. And, you know, occasional surly looks at the camera, you know, all in the name of glory. We see that a lot with Hollywood big media, but in our tribal communities, that term warrior is very different.

[22:35] D.J. Vanas: It’s somebody who’s dedicated their lives to developing their career, given talent and ability. So they could be an asset to the tribe that they served. It was somebody who was a contributor, somebody who worked a lifetime to do this, day in and day out. Somebody who put service first, somebody who asked not what could I get, but what could I do for someone else.

[22:53] D.J. Vanas: Somebody who at the end of the day was willing to fight for something bigger than their own personal welfare. And I think service is our highest calling. And so, and we have infinite opportunities to do that as long as we’re drawn breath. But it’s the most fulfilling path we ever take. You know, we get busy being busy, but there is no feeling in the world, like being able to serve another human being in a good way.

[23:14] D.J. Vanas: It makes us feel amazing inside. You know, we think serving somebody else well is going to, it’s for the accolade or the acknowledgement or the promotion. All those things are great. But at the end of the day, what we tend to forget about when we serve somebody else, well, it’s, it’s not about that at all.

[23:28] D.J. Vanas: It’s about the fact that we feel we are in alignment, you know, in that moment. And we, our spirit shoots through the clouds. But we sometimes forget that because we’re so busy, you know, services are deepest need. You know, we, we all have a need to feel valued. We can get some of that fulfilled when we serve somebody else.

[23:44] D.J. Vanas: Well, I mean, how cool is that?

[23:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Well, the goal, the very first goal that we coach our clients to set is in relationships. Certainly talk about career, wealth, business, all that. But it’s like, this is really about people. Like when you look at what actually makes people happy, I mean, the, the Harvard grant study, which has been going on, I think since 1938 has studied thousands of people and it’s the longest longitudinal study on human happiness ever, and it’s still going on.

[24:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: But what they determined, it’s like, it’s about people. It’s about connection and people and relationships. That’s part of service is like being in service to others, friends, family, community, neighbors. That stuff is fulfilling. It’s great to make a lot of money and be really fit or, or whatever it might, the stuff that really, truly makes you happy is, is service to others.

[24:34] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yes. It’s the legacy

[24:36] D.J. Vanas: we leave behind us. I mean, this is, this is the other part that I think it’s lost in the, in the way that we look at this is I’ve worked with over 500 tribal nations in the last 25 years of my life, from the Arctic circle of Alaska down to Florida and from Maine out to Hawaii and in every one of those tribal communities, when they lose an elder, a key piece of their ongoing history, we have a celebration of feast.

[24:57] D.J. Vanas: And what gets focused on more than anything else is not the car they drove, the clothes they wore, the cool places they vacation, but it’s the What’s focused on is that moment that that person had a real world impact on somebody else’s journey. Where they shared insight, wisdom, encouragement, where they were a shoulder to lean on or a hand to hold to somebody who needed it desperately.

[25:16] D.J. Vanas: And that is what gets left behind us after we draw our last breath. You know, in every day of our lives and careers, we’re going out and creating another puzzle piece in that image that we’re going to leave behind us when we are gone. That is how we get remembered. And we have those moments where, when we are mindful, whether it’s in the presence of a family member, a client, a friend, somebody that you’re doing community or volunteer service with, take those moments as they come and be fully present when you do that, because that’s the only thing that, We leave behind as a tail of the tape when we’re gone.

[25:50] D.J. Vanas: It matters.

[25:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: For the listener who wants to go deeper into this back in episode 420 of this podcast, I talk about legacy and we talk of just a lot of the stuff that DJ and I were just talking about. So, and no, I don’t have every episode number memorized. But yeah, back in episode 420, I talk about that. DJ, you have a new book.

[26:13] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Talked about the warrior spirit is called the warrior within what is the warrior spirit and you hinted at it a few minutes ago. What is this warrior spirit and how do you bring this to corporations? So let’s just talk about what is the warrior spirit for it first? Because I have a follow up question.

[26:29] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I really want to dive into.

[26:30] D.J. Vanas: Yeah, it’s that relentless belief inside deep down in our core that says, I will find a way forward that is unwilling to quit unwilling to waver because we know at the end of the day, what we are fighting for is not just for us when we are fighting for something bigger than us.

[26:49] D.J. Vanas: That’s where that warrior spirit really gets engaged. This is goes beyond motivation, beyond drive, beyond persistence. When we tap into that warrior spirit, we elevate and are able to do things we didn’t think otherwise would be possible. It sustains us. It guides us. It gets us out of the bed in the morning when we don’t want to, because we know we’re not doing this just for our own benefit.

[27:10] D.J. Vanas: We’re doing this to help somebody else out or to have an impact in somebody else’s life. That warrior spirit, you know, I unpack it in the book more and, and I do it through a lens of what our traditional in our Native American communities, our tribal communities, what that term meant and how we can Follow that pathway, those principles and tenets in our own life, whether you’re native or not as irrelevant, good principles are good principles and they can create an effect for us if we choose to follow them.

[27:36] D.J. Vanas: And that’s what that book is all about. It’s about resiliency. It’s about grit. It’s about surrounding yourself with the right people becoming an elder, which in our tribe, you know, that’s like the pinnacle of development. As we become this person who has collected so much in our life through the ups and downs, especially through the downs, that’s where we really learn and being able to share that with our tribe, be able to mentor other people as they come up to help them as well.

[28:01] D.J. Vanas: But it’s about personal excellence for a lifetime, having a vision and sticking to it, self discipline. There’s so much that goes into the book. You know, each chapter is broken out, but it’s all about how do we keep showing up, creating a better and better version of ourselves in a service environment.

[28:16] D.J. Vanas: Because that’s traditionally what our warriors were all about. You know, they dealt with fear. They dealt with pain. They had scarce resources and they were vastly outnumbered. And they still found a way to move forward to make it work.

[28:29] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Do you tap into that? I mean, that story of like you just talked about the Native American out resourced, outnumbered.

[28:36] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah,

[28:37] D.J. Vanas: that’s throughout the book. That’s the common theme throughout the book. If they can do it under these circumstances, what on earth is our excuse not to be able to channel this? In an era where we’re surrounded by resources, we have technology at the click of a button, we can talk to somebody on the other side of the planet and get advice.

[28:52] D.J. Vanas: Like we’ve become our own worst enemy in those moments where we have all these resources and we don’t access them. But yeah, I talk about that being outnumbered, overmatched technologically. So I sprinkle that throughout the book from that historical perspective. But like I said, good principles are good principles.

[29:08] D.J. Vanas: And I hope that I wrote the book in a way and the feedback has come back that way, that it was being able to see things through a different lens. That it was inspiring, that it was encouraging, but most important, it gave people an idea that there’s so much more that they could be working with from an internal resource point of view than they realized before they read the book.

[29:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: If there’s one warrior principle that you want the listeners to really take away from today and from this conversation, is there one you could boil it down to and say, if you’re just going to take away one today, what might that be?

[29:41] D.J. Vanas: I

[29:41] Jim Harshaw Jr.: think it would be the mental toughness

[29:43] D.J. Vanas: piece, you know, developing mental toughness.

[29:45] D.J. Vanas: Our warriors did it on purpose. And by design, they expose themselves to the elements, really difficult ceremonies, even the games that were played to simulate war were really difficult and dangerous.

[29:54] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Like what, can you give us any examples? Whether it’s games or the, or ceremonies or, or sort of difficult.

[29:59] D.J. Vanas: Well, the ceremonies like vision quest, where you go out, we humble let you Yapi to cry for a vision. We go out for four days, four nights, no food, no water, no shelter. And we simply pray for guidance and direction and it’s extremely difficult. And, but what you get out of that experience, there’s a trade off.

[30:18] D.J. Vanas: Have you participated in something like that? Yeah. Four years. Sundance is highlighted a little bit in that. In the book to one of the ceremonies that we do for Thanksgiving and to give respect for the pain that women go through in childbirth by push, push, pushing. We, as men pull, pull, pull, we pierce our chest and we’re tied to a tree and we pull, go up and back four times.

[30:37] D.J. Vanas: And on the fourth time, we dance backwards until we rip free. And the symbology there is balance, you know, that women go through that pain. So we, as men try to balance it out, but when we finally break from those lines, it’s like, we start with a clean slate. And we really get to re engage in our life, let the past be in the past, let go of regret, anger, shame, guilt, whatever it is that’s holding us back and start forward with a clean slate.

[31:03] D.J. Vanas: And that’s another ceremony we do for four years. Each year we do that. At what age? It depends. Late teens. We’ve got some of our younger dancers were teenagers and some of our older dancers were in their 60s. So it just, you know, you come to it. I was in my mid twenties when I went through it. It’s a life changer, but these are ceremonies.

[31:24] D.J. Vanas: And the whole point I was trying to make is. Even traditionally, our ceremonies were already always hard and required sacrifice because the whole idea behind that, especially with warrior training, the games, even exposure to the elements, getting up in the morning and breaking the ice to swim in a river, it was to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[31:44] D.J. Vanas: So that when the, you know what hits the fan, they’re not freaking out. They’re like, okay, I, I know what this is. I’ve been here before. I know what this feels like. I know how to respond and mental toughness is that that conditioning that we go through in our own lives where we can handle the stuff that life throws our way, or we can absorb impact.

[32:01] D.J. Vanas: That’s really what it comes down to, you know, Rocky had a great quote about mental toughness. He said, it’s not about how hard you can hit. It’s how hard can you get hit and keep moving forward? You know, which I love that quote. You know, we’re all going to take hits. How, you know, how hard can you get hit and keep moving forward?

[32:19] D.J. Vanas: Yeah. And there’s ways that we can develop that on purpose. I talk about it in the book, but it’s, you know, things like fostering joy in our life, which we don’t do nearly enough of and we’re joyful. And we do things that are in the pursuit of that joy, which is deeper than happiness. It forms a barrier between us and the negative, nasty stuff in the world.

[32:36] D.J. Vanas: It’s a, it’s like a crash barrier, if you will. It protects us when we are able to stop out running and out working our feelings. That’s another one that is tremendously beneficial. Where we’re able to sit and process what’s actually going on and ask ourselves, is what I’m telling myself real? Or is this just fear showing up?

[32:56] D.J. Vanas: And again, what I said before, what story am I telling myself about what’s happening now? We can be great storytellers and sometimes we’re really terrible at it and we catastrophize, but we get to have that internal dialogue. So there’s things that we can do, but. The point is that is one of the best skill sets I think in the world today is being able to deal with that embracing the fact when things get hard, those are going to be your best learning moments instead of running away from it, diminishing it, lean into that stuff.

[33:24] D.J. Vanas: You know, that’s what we were saying before that the podcast is sometimes the hardest, most painful things we ever go through in life, bring out the best stuff we never knew we had. And that’s a reality that’s in my life. That has been an absolute truism through all those ups and downs and heartbreaks that I’ve experienced.

[33:41] D.J. Vanas: I’m in the position now and the person I am now because of those things. We talked a few

[33:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: minutes ago about being around, surrounding yourself with the right people. I was texting last night with a friend of mine who did his first 100 mile race, running race. And. I said, how did it go? And we were texting back and forth.

[33:59] Jim Harshaw Jr.: He said at about the 81 mile Mark, he said, I was throwing up and I couldn’t keep anything down. No water, no food, no nothing. I said, Oh my goodness, what did you do? He said, well, I’d been here before, so I knew how to handle this. And he told me he took a 30 minute nap. He didn’t sleep the whole time. So this is like, I don’t know, 25 hours into it or something like that.

[34:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And he’s like, I took a 30 minute nap and I woke up with my legs were well rested, whatever that means, like well rested after a 30 minute nap after 80 miles in. But the idea is, so two things is like, number one, he had been there before, right? When you go through this kind of adversity, you can handle it again the next time.

[34:38] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Um, and other adversities as well, but also like, this is the kind of person I want to be around. I want to surround myself with. People like him, his name’s Dan. And I work out with Dan actually a couple of times a week and people think I’m fit. I’m like, no, I’m a bum because like, like this guy’s the standard, you know, like these are the kinds of people you want to be around who are demonstrating these kinds of lessons DJ that you’re talking about here.

[34:59] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And so it’s fascinating for me to get to talk to somebody like you and to listen to these stories. What’s an action item that you would recommend for the listeners to take in the next, let’s say 24 to 48 hours for the listener who’s bought in, loves what you’re saying, loves this philosophy. Maybe pick up the book.

[35:13] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I certainly recommend the, the, the listener by the book, the warrior within we’ll have a link in the action plan, but DJ, can you recommend an action item for the listener?

[35:21] D.J. Vanas: Absolutely. I would take tonight, take a blank sheet of paper and write down 10 moments that you can remember in your life where you showed bravery, where you showed courage.

[35:30] D.J. Vanas: And we tend to overlook this and it is a travesty that we do. So, and the reason why is because we’re so busy, we go through something hard and we kind of stumble through it and go, Oh my gosh, I’m so happy. I’m through this. What’s the next thing? Take a moment, reflect on that, honor it, journal about it, talk about it with friends, spend some time walking and reflecting on what it took for you in that moment to rise to that challenge where you did something you didn’t think you could do.

[35:52] D.J. Vanas: You got through something you didn’t think you could get through, but you did. And when you’re able to do that, you capture these moments of courage and action, otherwise known as bravery, and you are able to store them away for the future and create what I call a courage reservoir where you can lean on that stuff.

[36:08] D.J. Vanas: So the next time something gets hard, difficult or scary, you can look back at this and say, you know what? I’ve been here before. I’ve done this. I know what it looks like. I know what it feels like. And then you can base your courage, not on faith. Faith is important, but you base your courage on evidence.

[36:25] D.J. Vanas: You remind yourself of who you are and it gives you a boost of confidence in a moment where you may need it the most. But take those moments. And I think you’re going to be pleasantly surprised when you’re honest with yourself and say, where did I really bring it? Where was it really tough? Where was it hard?

[36:37] D.J. Vanas: What did I learn? And when you find that it’s exciting. DJ, where can

[36:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: people find you, follow you by your book, et cetera.

[36:45] D.J. Vanas: Best place to get ahold of us is native discovery. com. Uh, the website has information on what I do, who I work with. There’s videos. There’s information on my book, the warrior within where you can buy that and buy it anywhere books are sold.

[36:58] D.J. Vanas: If you’re too busy to read. I’ll read the whole darn thing for you. Uh, there’s an audible version as well. And I am the narrator spent four days in a sound recording booth doing it. Happy on how it turned out, but that’s the best way to get all of us native discovery. com. Excellent

[37:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: for the listener. Of course, we’ll have the links to that in the action plan.

[37:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Go to jim harsha, jr. com slash action DJ. Thank you so much for making time to come on the show. Thanks for having me, Jim. It’s been a pleasure. Likewise.

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