[00:00] Bill Potts: And I was having a full-fledged emotional meltdown, and the nurse says, what’s up? And I said, I’m not sure I’m up for the fight. I’ve been through this a number of times. I know what’s coming. I was wrong. It was worse than what I thought was coming, but I said, I just don’t know. Maybe it’s time to throw in the towel.

[00:23] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Welcome to another episode of Success Through Failure, the show for successful people and for those who want to become more successful, the only podcast that reveals the true nature of success through conversations with world-class performers, while also sharing my own lessons of success through failure from my athletic career, my business career, and my personal life.

[00:45] This is your host, Jim Harshaw Jr., and today I bring you, Bill Potts. Bill is the author of a book titled Up for the Fight: How to Advocate for Yourself as You Battle Cancer — from a Five-Time Cancer Survivor. That’s right, Bill is a five-time, five-time cancer survivor, and his journey is not over. He has incurable cancer. So this book is not about him pitching something, he is not selling you anything. It’s about him giving you the tools to own your journey. This episode, let me be very clear, is not about cancer. This is about you owning your journey, owning where you’re at right now in your life, and he gives us very clear ways to do that and to move through adversity, to move through failure, setbacks, challenges that you have in your life, personal life, professional life or otherwise. How to plow through those, get to the other side.

[01:35] So whether you’re seeking advice on improving your marriage or getting healthier, making more money, advancing your career, whatever it is, his story and his action items, and the framework that he shares will be a guiding light for you. And I was able to pull from Bill all these great lessons that we can apply to our own lives. And it’s a fantastic conversation. Bill’s an amazing individual as you’re about to find out.

[01:58] A little bit more about him and his background. So he’s also now become a motivational speaker. He’s a business leader. He’s a dedicated father and husband. He’s an IRONMAN. He’s completed an IRONMAN. He’s a marathoner. He’s also held executive position at the IRONMAN Group, as well as at the Clearwater Marine Aquarium. He’s lectured on marketing at Tulane University where he earned his MBA. He’s also the co-founder and managing director of his own marketing agency called Remedy 365.

[02:28] If you like these episodes, if you know somebody else who needs to hear them, please give this a share. Just text your friend, say hey, check out the latest episode of Success Through Failure. It’s found on every podcast platform. If you’re listening to this, take a screenshot on your phone and tag me in social media. Let me know that you liked it. Love to interact with you there. Share this on social media anywhere you see it, give it a retweet, give a like, make a comment under it because it will help this message be heard even more. Bill is an incredible individual and so thank you for listening to his story, and make sure you hit that subscribe button if you’re not already subscribed. So let’s get into my interview with Bill Potts.

[03:10] Your first cancer diagnosis was 20 years ago, and you’ve had many since then. Can you take us to the moment of your first diagnosis, like, where were you, who was with you? What did the doctors say? What was it like in that moment?

[03:25] Bill Potts: Yeah, it was really a surprise. I was in Houston, Texas at my primary care physician with my wife. I had a thyroid nodule biopsy and I went in to get the results and so I took her really expecting nothing, but he told me that the biopsy came back and I had thyroid cancer, and all of a sudden it’s blah, blah, blah. You have a hard time hearing what comes out after that.

[03:52] As with any big news anybody has in their life, sometimes it’s a little bit hard to process. You get a little bit numb, it gets a little bit hard to think. All those things were happening to me, really at that instant. I physically got ill went to the bathroom, came back out. The nurses are like, okay. And yeah, that was the first of many times I was told I had cancer and probably the most surprising because it really came out of left field.

[04:17] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: How did your family take it?

[04:19] Bill Potts: Yeah, my wife, she was rattled like I was, I had three little kids, so they were twins that were four and an eight year old son. So they really had no idea what was happening, so the direct family was oblivious. At least the kids were. And my wife was basically, let’s get the game on. Let’s figure out what to do and let’s get going.

[04:37] At that point, she was all business. It took her a few days, but then she dialed into the, to the get better side, and we started handling it.

[04:45] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: So what was the scariest part of that early cancer journey? There’s probably a lot of fear obviously that day, but tell us about that early part of your journey and the scariest part of that.

[04:56] Bill Potts: Yeah, I think the scariest part is when you’re told you’ve got potential serious illness, whatever it is, in my case cancer, your priorities are shifting. How you spend your time, shifting, your outlook on life. It is scary to get that diagnosis, but the scarier one for me was in 2008.

[05:15] I thought I was done after thyroid cancer. I’m at MD Anderson now in Houston, and they show me. I spent a week going through staging at MD Anderson because I had these lumps all over my body and it turned out that the scary part was when they show me my PET scan. And for those that don’t know, PET scan is for a lot of cancers, is a great way of identifying where in the body the cancer’s located, and they showed it to me on the screen and I looked like a Christmas tree. I’m like, no, that’s scary. That is a lot of cancer. And at that moment it became much more real than even the thyroid cancer, which I never really worried about the dying piece. But when you look at yourself on a PET scan and you see cancer spread throughout your body, it is a jarring and emotional and very scary.

[06:03] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: I’ve heard you talk about a moment where you had an epiphany that it’s not just cancer that could kill you, but actually the treatment could kill you, and you had an unexpected reaction to an infusion. What happened there?

[06:16] Bill Potts: Yeah, it’s 2008 and by now I’ve learned how to advocate for myself. I’ve learned how to own the journey. I do my homework, I talk to other patients. I do all those things before I go in for my chemotherapy slash immunotherapy.

[06:28] Mine was nicknamed Shake ‘n Bake, by the way. So that’s what my treatment was nicknamed. So I knew some things could happen during the treatment, but what I didn’t know is that the seriousness of the reaction that you can have going through it. My particular drug was based on a hamster embryos interestingly, and I did not know I was allergic to hamsters. I do now. And so about an hour into the infusion, we thought everything was good. My wife left the room to go call people to tell me everything was going well. I had a life-threatening reaction to the treatment and so it was a 911.

[07:05] Alarms go off, they come in and save my butt. And it took about two minutes and then I was safe. But that is when the first time I was really realizing it’s not just the cancer that can get you, it’s the treatment. And I kept that with me. I’ve been through uncountable number of chemotherapy treatments, subsequently, and each time I go in, I am aware of the risk. Didn’t at first, so I made the big mistake in 2002 by not getting a second opinion for my thyroid cancer and having my thyroid taken out and going through radiation ablation treatment, being given a pill form of the same radioactivity that was sent out by Chernobyl Iodine-131.

[07:52] So it wasn’t until a year later that that same doctor that had given me that Iodine-131 to kill the cancer, which it did, told me that he thought my cancer was back and I needed to do it again. Whew. I’m like, that doesn’t even make sense, I don’t have a thyroid anymore. And the radiation wiped out what was left of it. So at that point, it was the aha moment, like oh my gosh, I need to own my journey. It’s not the doctor’s life, it’s my life. And so then I shifted my entire focus to MD Anderson, getting a second opinion. And that one moment changed how I managed my cancer battle throughout.

[08:29] Now I’ve had cancer six times, beat it five times, and that owning the journey with a hundred percent certainty has saved my life. And owning it means challenging the doctors, doing your homework. It means taking notes. It means showing up on time to appointments. It means understanding the drugs that you’re taking and the side effects that they could give you. It’s your diet, it’s your recovery, it’s all of it. You have to own it.

[08:56] And in particular with life-threatening illnesses, owning it is really, if I had not owned my journey, there’s no way we’d be talking today ’cause I would’ve had a second round of radiation that I didn’t need.

[09:08] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: It’s so easy to default to the experts and what the experts tell you, and for the listener, this may not be for you about cancer in your life, and I pray that it’s not. But maybe it’s what your boss is telling you or what some experts online are telling you, or what some other experts are telling you that you’re capable of or maybe that you’re not capable of, or what you should do or what you shouldn’t be doing.

[09:29] You have to own that too. Bill’s telling us about how he had to own his journey, like owning his journey was, for him it was about life and death. And owning your journey, it may be that now, I hope that it’s not, or maybe at some point in the future it may be. But what I’m really talking about here is owning your journey, like regardless of any physical ailment or psychological ailment or external pressure. You have to own that. Nobody’s coming to save you. Nobody’s gonna do this for you. You have to own it. Like your boss isn’t gonna own your career, your spouse isn’t gonna own your relationship, your doctor’s not gonna own your health. This is yours to own.

[10:05] And I think, Bill, your message is bigger than cancer. This is for everybody. Everybody needs to think about how they can own this more. And like what default am I settling for that I’m not taking responsibility?

[10:19] Bill Potts: Yeah, I think you said it well and I’ve applied those same principles of owning my cancer journey to the rest of my life as well. I learned it in 2002, but you’re right, particularly for careers, it’s your career. You manage it. And you can’t say I didn’t get the promotion, or I want to be in that industry. Own it. And I’ve got three kids that are in the working world, and I give them that same message that you just gave, which is, yeah, the importance of owning your journey.

[10:44] But your health journey is another one that you have to own, whether it’s diet or exercise. It’s not the pills that are gonna help you. They can, but it’s doing the things right to maintain your health the best that you can.

[10:59] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Quick interruption. Hey, if you like what you’re hearing, be sure to get the notes, quotes, and links in the Action Plan from this episode. Just go to jimharshawjr.com/action. That’s jimharshawjr.com/action to get your free copy of the Action Plan. Now back to the show.

[11:17] So what changes after a cancer diagnosis? Priorities, like do you stress out less about the small things? Do the big things become smaller? What changes when you have this shift in perspective that comes with a cancer diagnosis?

[11:31] Bill Potts: Yeah, it changes everything. Starting with the money piece, it changes your relationship with money. For me, money is much more about creating memories and building relationships than it is about stuff. So that’s been great.

[11:47] Clearly with incurable cancer, living in the moment becomes important for me. I live every day. In that moment, like right now Jim, one thing, and that’s having this conversation with you. I apply that in my life with my friends and family, put the phone away. I’m in the moment with them. I’m building on that. It does.

[12:07] You mentioned not sweating the small stuff. I was riding my bike a couple months ago, and somebody threw something at me and hit me from a car. My wife’s like, what happened? I’m like, I felt bad for them. I wasn’t even mad, and it even surprised me. But those little things, I wasn’t hurt, didn’t fall off my bike, and I’m like, yeah, bummer for them that they feel like they gotta throw something at a cyclist. But yeah, the little things tend not to bother me because I have that different perspective.

[12:34] And also, I lean into my relationships in a much different way than I did before. I really, I value the quality of those relationships more than I do the quantity of those relationships. I need fewer, better versus a lot that are less.

[12:50] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: How do you, I don’t even know how to ask this question, but like, how do you recommend to someone who doesn’t have a diagnosis like you, how do we gain that perspective?

[13:01] I do gratitude journaling, I do meditation. I try to be focused. I try to be present, try to be in the moment, and I do something that I call a productive pause. The longtime listeners know exactly what that is, and I really try to be in the moment. But there’s a big shift, I would imagine, from where I’m at to where you are at.

[13:19] Like any advice for someone like me and the listeners who don’t have that cancer diagnosis to have that perspective that you have now.

[13:28] Bill Potts: All those things that — you could probably give me advice. All those things that you do are great. And I do a lot of those same things. Connecting with nature, taking care of myself, setting goals and priorities, all those types of things.

[13:42] Only thing I can say that’s different than what you said, additive to it is to think seriously about the fact that tomorrow’s not guaranteed for any of us. And yes, I’ve had to look death in the eye a number of times, and so I have a different perspective, but you don’t need to go through that to have the perspective of gratitude that, I’m here today, and if I’m here today and I’m not sure about tomorrow, no matter what you just don’t know, that will force you to think about living in the.

[14:14] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Bill, you talk about the five things that you need to beat cancer. Can you share those five things? And for the listener, I want you to think about this, like whether or not you’re dealing with cancer or some other kind of adversity. Maybe it’s a relationship or in your business or some kind of other health affliction. I want you to put these in that perspective. But Bill, share the five things that you need to beat cancer.

[14:36] Bill Potts: Yeah, the first one, it came up September 17th, 2020. It was at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida because I couldn’t go to MD Anderson because of the pandemic. And I woke up after having major surgery to move a rather painful, cancerous tumor below my right hip. And I was by myself in the recovery room just with the nurse. My wife wasn’t there ’cause of the COVID protocol. And I was having a full-fledged emotional meltdown. And the nurse says, what’s up? And I said, I’m not sure I’m up for the fight. I’ve been through this a number of times. I know what’s coming.

[15:10] I was wrong. It was worse than what I thought was coming, but I said, I just dunno. Maybe it’s time to throw in the towel. So smartly, she called in a pastor, who came in, and we decided to go through all the reasons why that I should fight, which is appropriate for any big issue in life. Why do I want to do it? Whether it’s work or relationship — in my case it was cancer. Why do I want to fight? I want to fight for my family. I want to fight for my friends. I want to fight for the work that I’m doing to help other people, and then I want to fight to make God proud.

[15:48] And so, reconnecting with your why in life, whether it’s cancer journey or not, is going to really help reset your focus and your drive.

[15:59] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: And I wanna share this just real quick for the listener, like reconnecting with your why. And you may be sitting there going, I’ve heard this before. Maybe you were looking for magic dust or some pill that you can take. This is actually it. He actually did this. He had somebody outside of him, a pastor, come and lead him through a set of questions, which is again what I mentioned a few minutes ago, like the productive pause, which is defined as “a short period of focused reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind.”

[16:34] And like, this didn’t make it easy. It made it easier to move forward, but for the listener, you actually have to do this. You can’t just hear it and go, yeah, I’ve heard that before, and then not do it. You actually have to do it. And maybe you do that with a pastor, maybe you do that with a coach. Maybe you do that with a personal trainer or a counselor or a therapist or whoever, a sports coach, whoever it might be. But you actually have to do these things.

[16:57] Bill Potts: At the end of that conversation with the pastor, the big surprise was, I was all good. I was up for the fight and she looks at me in the eye. She goes, Bill, you need to turn your pain into purpose and write a book to help others. So I looked her in the eye and I remember I’m just, I’m an hour in from coming out of anesthesia.

[17:16] So I had reasons to not do it, but I looked her in the eye and I’m like, okay, I will. And then I was committed, for me, a deal’s a deal. And so I had to do it. And I was lucky enough to get a publisher that believed in the vision of helping others through my journey to get that done.

[17:32] So number two is, we talked about it, but you have to own your own journey, particularly in the health situation.

[17:40] Another key one for me, and this is in life in general, is you need to have a buddy with you to support you in the journey. And my buddy has been my wife. She hasn’t always been able to be with me because the quantity of my appointments and treatments has been so high. And we have three kids and she had a full-time job, but anytime she could, she’d be with me. But she was almost always with me, on my appointments with the doctors because it’s a second set of ears to listen. Because it is hard to listen as the patient sometimes, or at least hard to understand, and most recently in my last battle, she has been sitting next to me in every single one of my chemotherapy treatments.

[18:20] The reason for that is that, as we talked about earlier, things can go off the wires pretty quickly, unexpectedly. And you need somebody besides the staff, which is great about keeping an eye on you, to be there for you.

[18:33] But in addition to having a buddy with you, you need your own support group outside of your family. And for me, that was friends. That was through some faith leaders, through Facebook groups interestingly. In my particular area of cancer, they have been super supportive. Also professional help, if you can get it, those are available through social workers, but therapy, those things can be super valuable for a cancer patient.

[18:59] And the one that is you talk about often, that is a positive and grateful attitude.

[19:05] Look, I have been sitting next to people that have a better attitude than I do, and they haven’t made it. And so, the attitude alone can’t save you, but what it can do is can help you and others around you in your journey. I believe a hundred percent that a positive attitude can help you heal, but a positive attitude will enable those around you to help you heal too. And this is not cancer-driven, but in life, do you want to be hanging around the grumpy negative person, or do you wanna spend time with a positive, happy person? And it’s the same thing in a healthcare setting. They won’t define it that way, but I can tell you a smile and a thank you goes a long way to making sure you have that warm blanket when you’re extra cold going through what you’re going through.

[19:48] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Yeah. Boy, words of wisdom right there, Bill. Just those five things, they’re so critical, and I encourage the listener to make sure you download the Action Plan. Make sure you capture this. Make sure you understand how these are going to affect you and affect your journey and getting around the right people and having a positive attitude and all the things that Bill just shared. This stuff is the stuff that you actually have to do no matter what you’re going through.

[20:14] Bill, if you could go back and talk to yourself 20 years ago just before that first cancer diagnosis, what would you say to yourself?

[20:22] Bill Potts: I would say get a second opinion. That mistake I made by not getting a second opinion may still cost me my life because now I have incurable cancer, which could be a result of that treatment that I had back in 2002. I would tell myself to dig in on the details more. I would tell myself to take it more serious. I would tell myself to build an action plan right up front for how I’m gonna tackle the journey. I would probably do a better job communicating with my family, what I’m going through and what I’m going to go through.

[20:56] So it would be dramatically different now than it was in 2002, but that’s part of the reason for the book is so I can share those things from the mistakes I made.

[21:05] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: The name of the show is Success Through Failure. Can you share any failures that you’ve experienced? Any specific moments that you can look back on and say, yeah, that was a failure. And maybe how you work through that and what you learned from it, and how you might be better off today because of it.

[21:21] Bill Potts: I’ll give you a couple, but the one we just talked through was the failure to do my homework and get a second opinion. And I don’t look back, I only look forward, but that is a pretty big failure on my side. I think too, the failure early on in my journey, this is post-2008, diagnosed with stage three incurable lymphoma.

[21:40] I failed in my ability to adapt my life to heal better, and so I didn’t. When I needed to rest, I continued to have this Type A lifestyle, traveling all over the world for my job, balancing a busy family, all those things together. And I didn’t hit the pause clause enough to reflect on the importance of rest, and I didn’t rest enough.

[22:06] And I failed. in revising my diet to be able to positively impact my healing. I am now, my wife jokes, it took me five times to figure out the best diet, but that was a mess and it was a big failure on my side because I could have felt better and I could have healed better if I had dived into a better diet and a better active lifestyle.

[22:33] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: For the listener, I wanna point out that Bill really is taking extreme ownership, to use a Jocko Willink term here. Of that first failure that you mentioned, the doctor made a mistake. There was a failure on the doctor’s part. You could sit there and blame the doctor. But you’re not, you’re taking ownership for that.

[22:50] And for the listener, that is so important for you too. Taking ownership of your part of any failures along the way in any part of your life, even if it’s an expert that made the mistake, Bill’s taking ownership of that. And when you can own that, you have the power over it, and you have the power to change. But if you don’t own it, you just blame other people for anything in your life. You blame your parents for where you’re at now, or you blame the doctor, or you blame your boss for where you’re at now, and then you have no power. You’re giving that power away. Take the power by owning that.

[23:25] Bill, you talked about when your cancer comes back, not if you talked about when it comes back. Tell us where you’re at in your journey.

[23:33] Bill Potts: Whew. Boy, living with incurable cancer is interesting because we’re not always sure when it’s gonna come back, but it will. And so where I am, the prostate cancer is on hold, but my lymphoma will come back sometime, probably in the next three to five years is what we’re hoping to get.

[23:49] And the reason we’re hoping to get three to five years is ’cause cancer smarts up to the treatment. And each time I go through treatment, it gets more and more challenging to beat it. But I’m hoping, I joke that the longer I live, the longer I will live, because in those three to five years, there’s gonna be some great advances in the hope that someday I can be cured of my cancer.

[24:08] But yeah, the incurable piece of it has shifted by how I spend my time, how I have my priorities. And currently I’m really beat up. I’m immunocompromised from my last chemo. So COVID vaccines don’t work. It’s been lonely, but I’ve had to be isolated from people for a long time. To that point, there’s 7 million people in the US that are immunocompromised for us. The pandemic’s not over. My chance of surviving COVID when I was going through chemotherapy was 45%, so I’ve had to be very careful. And so as it stands, I finally got COVID on Halloween, finally made one mistake and went somewhere I shouldn’t have gone and got COVID, but it took me 19 days to recover.

[24:48] So it was I was circling the drain pretty quickly, so thanks to Paxil, I’m here having this conversation. But yeah, the incurable part of it has forced me to be super sensitive on germs. My wife and I installed a Reme Halo system in our house, which is hospital quality air purification to kill viruses and bacteria. I haven’t been to inside a restaurant or an airplane or on a bus. In stores, I’ve had to avoid it. And when I go somewhere that I’m gonna be around people that’s not outside, I wear a mask. So yeah, my life is very different than most people, but I’m adapting ’cause you know, you just adjust. I live in Florida, so I’m outside most of the time.

[25:23] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: So for the listener who wants to get more of that resilience that you have, that attitude that you have, and start owning their journey wherever they’re at, whatever type of journey that is. If they’re trying to go from, good to great, or anywhere in between, what’s an action item that they can take, let’s say, in the next 24 to 48 hours to really start owning their journey?

[25:42] Bill Potts: I’m gonna answer that a couple different ways. Let’s focus on the health piece first, because you know my background with that. So say that somebody says, I wanna take better care of my health, which I would recommend everybody does, my action plan would be decide why you wanna take better care of your health. Whether it’s so you can work better, play better, time with your family, live longer.

[26:04] And then quickly do a couple things to work to improve your health, which if you’re smoking, stop, if you’re overweight, start working on a plan to do that. If you’re eating a lot of red meats, start limiting that. All those things that will improve your life, not just now, but improve it 20 or 30 years from now, because those all have an impact on your health Later. But to do that effectively, you gotta say, why do I want to do it? And then you gotta start putting together the plan, as you said, the action plan to get that done.

[26:33] But do it in small steps. It’s like you raced your marathon. And when I race IRONMAN, the whole idea in life is you get far by taking a lot of small steps. Look, I’ve had to rebuild my health so many times that I might’ve run a marathon last year, but I can’t walk to the mailbox this year.

[26:53] So I now need to walk to the mailbox. Then I walk to the neighbor’s mailbox, then I walk to the neighbor’s neighbor’s mailbox, and pretty soon I’m walking a mile and I start building from there. So you’ve gotta take small steps in that journey to get where you want to go. Those small steps will continue forever, but you can’t take one big leap.

[27:10] And so if you’re dealing with your health, it’s all additive. Do a small thing today that which will be a big thing in a year. So that’s on the health side. Another action item, and this is probably the most important thing that I’ll say today. And I’ve learned this through my journey of having to face dying, is to make sure that you fix relationships that are broken today. And if you love somebody, tell ’em not tomorrow, tell ’em today. So if you’ve got a brother or a sister, or mother and aunt, uncle or a friend that you love, call ’em and tell ’em you love him. It’s been transformational for me. And I do this with my guy friends.

[27:51] I just called somebody today I hadn’t talked to in a few months before this call, and I said, hey. Her name’s Kathleen and she worked for a nonprofit that I’ve been involved with. And I said, she goes, why are you calling? I’m like, one reason, I wanna tell you I love you. She goes, I love you back. And then we had a good chat. And that has changed my life in so many ways that I can’t even believe it.

[28:10] And it can be challenging, especially for males to do that with guy friends. Some guy friends still don’t say it back, but they know I love ’em because I don’t want to be that guy that didn’t tell ’em. And I want to fix those relationships because what if I don’t get to fix it? And it’s magic.

[28:27] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Can’t think of a better action item. Bill, for the listeners who want to find you, follow you, buy your book, which is again titled “Up for the Fight: How to Advocate for Yourself as You Battle Cancer — from a Five-Time Cancer Survivor.” Where can people find you?

[28:41] Bill Potts: Yeah, go to billcpotts.com. The book is available wherever books are sold, so it shouldn’t be hard finding it, but if you want to connect with me, go to billcpotts.com and it’s got a lot of information on me. It’s got a lot of resources on there. It’s got some stories on there, but also it’ll give you the links too if you want to buy the book. That way, you can just go to Amazon, have it delivered tomorrow.

[29:01] I found that some of the best feedback I’m getting on the book, Jim, is from people who are buying it for friends that are going through the cancer journey, and my idea behind this book, which was from Mayo, but was to impact one person with the book. And so, if you have a friend or family going through the journey, you can impact them because it’s with a hundred percent certainty that the lessons that I’ve learned the hard way through this book will make a positive impact in their journey. This is a book I wish somebody else had written for me. I accidentally became an expert and now I’ve got the book to help others.

[29:38] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Bill, it’s a powerful message and I’m so grateful that you’re sharing it with the world. Thank you.

[29:43] Bill Potts: Thank you.

[29:46] Jim Harshaw, Jr.: Thanks for listening. If you want to apply these principles into your life, let’s talk. You can see the limited spaces that are open on my calendar at jimharshawjr.com/apply, where you can sign up for a free one-time coaching call directly with me.

[30:01] And don’t forget to grab your Action Plan, just go to jimharshawjr.com/action. And lastly, iTunes tends to suggest podcasts with more ratings and reviews more often. You would totally make my day if you give me a rating and review. Those go a long way in helping me grow the podcast audience.

[30:20] Just open up your podcast app. If you have an iPhone, do a search for Success Through Failure, select it, and then scroll the whole way to the bottom where you can leave the podcast a rating and review. Now, I hope this isn’t just another podcast episode for you. I hope you take action on what you learned here today. Good luck and thanks for listening.

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