[00:00] David Karasek: We had to be at the call room 30 minutes before because there was a strict TV schedule and there were three call rooms and I got to the first one it was really hot and obviously I was nervous and stuff but I had the tools to handle it but then three minutes later like Michael Phelps with his headphones he walks in and all the big shots you know and I was like I got more nervous and Michael Phelps sat down and I see him doing the same breathing thing you know I was using what I learned from Jim and I saw him sitting down doing the exact same thing.

[00:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Welcome to another episode of Success. For the athletic minded man, real talk on harnessing your athletic drive for clarity, consistency, and focus in business and life. This is your host, Jim Harshaw, Jr. and today I bring you David Karasek. So a month or so ago, I was researching for an episode that I had recently published about structuring your day like an elite athlete.

[00:56] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And I came across this article about Michael Phelps and this guy, David Karasek was mentioned in the article and how he also worked with the same mindset coach as Michael Phelps and worked with Jim Bauman. And this David Karasek guy was an Olympian as well. And I read the article and turns out he went to UVA like I did.

[01:13] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So he’s a fellow Wahoo and researches background and, uh, look at, he’s a performance coach and just love his content, love what he’s doing. And I reached out to him and here we are. So we had a great conversation you’re about to hear. We get into the mindset work that he did with the same. Mindset coach as the greatest athlete, probably of all time in any sport, Michael Phelps and his, we talk about his interactions with Roger Federer and the different mindset things that he’s had to do to become one of the best in the world and how he teaches that to, uh, not only athletes, but business leaders.

[01:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So a fascinating conversation you’re about to listen to with David Karasek. Give this a share. I know, you know, one other person who loves this kind of stuff. So I appreciate any comments, likes, shares. Those go a long way in helping me continue to grow this audience, to bring on great guests like we have here today with David Karasek.

[02:11] Jim Harshaw Jr.: All right. So let’s get into my interview with Olympic swimmer, David Karasek. Take us back to the moment. When you realized you became an Olympian.

[02:23] David Karasek: Yeah, I kind of knew leading up to that race to like Olympic trials in Switzerland, that there’s always a possibility, but I knew I’m close and I was in great shape because we just had ACC championships, the UVA.

[02:36] David Karasek: So I’m really fast there and I traveled back home and it was a 200 individual medley and I just went for it in the morning. Had like a pretty good swim, but you know, like he touched the wall and I was so relaxed in a way, you know, when you lose the sense of time, you don’t even know what’s going on. You just, I remember walking in, see, my parents were like there and there’s the crowd and all that.

[02:56] David Karasek: And it just kind of blanked out and I jumped into what I felt like a penguin, like, you know, gliding and I knew I was off to a good start and I don’t remember much of the race. But then I touched the wall and look back and check the time. And it’s one of these moments, you know, when, when I didn’t surprise just my coach and my parents, but actually surprised myself, these are the moments that as a swimmer, you know, that’s why we train 20, 30 hours a week.

[03:21] David Karasek: And so that moment I saw the time and I saw that I qualified for the Olympics. And I was like. Cause I was first in my country and I was just celebrating. I saw that smile on my parents face. Like my mom was going nuts. You know, these moments like, oof, I could have many of those. I mean, if we could have one of those a day, that’d be great.

[03:39] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You said you were relaxed. This is the race. Of your life, of your career, you could have said the opposite. I was like so stressed and so much pressure, which to be honest, you and I both know you would not have had the performance that you did, but how do you go into a high pressure moment, relax. And for the listener, they’re not competitive athletes, right?

[04:04] Jim Harshaw Jr.: They were athletic at some point, maybe in their life in high school or college, but like maybe their pressure moment is going into a meeting with their boss. A job interview, a sales presentation. How were you relaxed in your high pressure moment?

[04:17] David Karasek: The truth is that I was less nervous when I was a 10 year old swimmer.

[04:21] David Karasek: I was nervous then already. Like the truth is I suffered from severe, I would say performance anxiety throughout my entire career. Swimming career, and it got worse and worse and worse as because the stakes get bigger. Right? So it’s the same in the job. It’s like, well, you start out as an intern. Okay. Am I going to get that intern job?

[04:38] David Karasek: And then all of a sudden you’re MD. Am I going to get that MD position? Or am I going to be voted into the executive board? Right? The stakes get bigger. And I was more nervous as I got older and I got better, but I think at the same time, as the nervousness went up, my skills, like the psychological skills to handle that nervousness and deal with it went up a lot more, you know, like the growth of that was faster.

[04:59] David Karasek: So, it’s not like that the nervousness went away, but my. Skills on how to handle that got a lot better. And then that’s why I said, like, I felt relaxed compared to back in the days when I didn’t have those skills. Right. And it was just nervousness. I was like, yeah, it never worked out. And then all of a sudden it started to work out.

[05:16] David Karasek: And again, Dr. Jim Bauman, right. Sports psychologist that Phelps had UVA hired him. And what a coincidence. And I was, you know, I tell you what, right. When they hired him, like there’s only two guys on the swim team that raised their hand and said, yeah, I want to work with him. Isn’t that crazy.

[05:33] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Quick side note, you know, my story, I worked with a sports psychologist late in my college career at UVA, different sports psychologists, not Jim Bauman.

[05:40] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Of course, I worked with Dr. Tom Perrin. There were two guys on the team who he worked with, two guys raised their hands. To work with him and both of us were all Americans go figure.

[05:52] David Karasek: And that is exactly, I went to the Olympics and the other guy raised his hand. He became seventh in a hundred freestyle for America.

[05:59] David Karasek: So he just missed it. Cause the back in the days they used to take six for the relay, just missed it. You know, but he is one of the best that we had at the time. Right. Yeah, it’s just crazy. And all that, that was, and the people say, Oh, you know, like, are you mentally not tough enough? Do you got a problem?

[06:14] David Karasek: You know, there’s another thing on your plate.

[06:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: It’s a weakness, right? It’s like coaching. It’s like, like what I do, I’m an executive life coach. It’s like, Oh, you know, what do you need an executive life coach for? Like, what do you need that for? Like, you got a weakness. It’s like, no, man, these, the people who I work with, they’re high performers and they want to be even better.

[06:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I was doing pretty well. I was ranked top 15 in the country, but I wanted to be even better. I want to be top eight in the country. And so did this other guy on my team, Matt Roth. Yeah. So those are the guys who were raising their hand and saying, give me more.

[06:38] David Karasek: Right. I mean, we can just say, well, yeah, I do struggle with

[06:42] Jim Harshaw Jr.: this and I want to get better sweet spot, so you got to work with.

[06:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Jim Bauman, who was the mindset coach for Michael Phelps, what was that experience like?

[06:55] David Karasek: He had a lot of good analogies. What I remember, I think it was probably in the first or second session. He just kind of had such a big aha moment. What he shared with me was like, I call it the ladder to success. I forgot what he called it back in the days, but it’s like, okay, here’s where you want to go.

[07:10] David Karasek: It’s your next level of success. For some, it’s That is winning an Olympic gold medal for others is making the Olympic team for others is making a regional team or just making a squat, right? It’s just your next level of success. And you got a ladder that leads to that success and the ladder has 3 parts.

[07:24] David Karasek: It has left leg, the right leg and the middle part. I could like, draw it out for you, but you can imagine like a ladder and the left leg. Is your body, the right leg are your skills and the middle part is your mind. And these are happened to be as an athlete. The only things that you can train, I can train your body endurance, strength, power, whatever you can train your skills and wrestling that be, you know, you take downs your defense, whatever in swimming, it’s like high elbow and stuff like that.

[07:49] David Karasek: And then you have your mind that you can try. And what he said was. Your performance in competition is going to depend on the lowest of the 3. So I’ll give you an example, right? If somebody that was, if somebody is mentally super tough and the body’s in great shape, but they just changed up the technique entirely last week, they’re not going to do well in competition because they haven’t internalized the new technique if they’re mentally tough and they got a great technique, but they’re sick or they got a broken leg.

[08:15] David Karasek: And I got to be doing very well in competition. And in my case was I was in great shape. My technique was dialed in, right? I’m not saying I had the world’s best technique, but it was enough to get me to the next level of success. But my mind broke down in competition, right? So I was always limited by my competition mindset, so to say.

[08:33] David Karasek: And what he said is like, we got to get to a point where we got the body, the technique, and the mind at a high level at the same time. And that’s when you get these performances where you surprise yourself in a positive way. You know, it was things like these analogies and like, Oh my God, this makes so much sense.

[08:51] David Karasek: And this light bulb moment.

[08:53] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So that was a big piece of you becoming an Olympian. So you mentioned, it’s interesting to hear an Olympian say, my mind is the thing that held me back. You know, I really struggled with performance anxiety for years. And then you go on to become an Olympian. For the listener, I want you to think about like, okay, Maybe you feel like you’ve got more potential.

[09:14] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You haven’t unlocked your full capabilities yet. You haven’t maximized your potential. There’s hope for you. Like wherever you’re at, there’s hope for you. You just have to bring the right people. And David, for you, that was Jim Bauman.

[09:28] David Karasek: Yeah, 100%. You know, like the blind spots that we all have? That’s why I have a coach too, right?

[09:33] David Karasek: I’m coaching and I got a coach because I’m not arrogant enough to say, Well, I don’t have any blind spots. And you, do you know a lot of people that coach or consult and they don’t have a coach?

[09:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, it is weird. It’s like, what do you mean you don’t have a coach? I was talking to one a couple of days ago and it’s like, they’re a coach and they don’t have a coach.

[09:49] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I tell my clients minimum, like minimum effective dose of coaching is like 30 minutes a month. Like you have to get somebody to, if you step out of the fray, out of the mix, out of the chaos of life, get clarity before you re engage, right? I call it a productive pause. And my, my listeners who have been listening for a long time know what this concept is, but the productive pause, we define it as a short period of focused reflection.

[10:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. And that’s what we all want. We want clarity of action, peace of mind. That’s what my coach gives me. I get at least four hours of coaching. Actually, if you add up all my coaching again, every month, it’s probably more like five or six hours of coaching, but yeah, it’s in.

[10:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So you have a coach now too, right? Yeah,

[10:33] David Karasek: I think I need it, you know, and I also think it’s okay to change the coach. It’s okay to have different coaches. It’s like, you know, it’s. Abundant mindset. I’m curious. Can you walk me through, if you say that 30 minutes, that sounds really like that, you get, getting a lot done with your clients or yourself.

[10:50] David Karasek: Like, how do you do it in like 30 minutes?

[10:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. So we start our whole program is about what is the vision for your life? Where are you going? What do you want your life to look like? You know, an ideal, perfect vision for your life. What does that look like? And then we have a process of reverse engineering that down to goals and And when you and I were competing, you and swimming, me and wrestling and the listener for whatever sport you did, it was a single minded focus on that, right?

[11:14] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Well, now life is much bigger than that. You have a kid, I have four kids and there’s just, you know, life is pulling us a million different directions. So we have to get clear on, on goals and we set them in four areas, relationships. Self, health, and wealth. And we have to get clear on those goals. And then every month you have to have somebody pulling you out of the mix, out of the fray, out of the rat race and saying, how are we doing in all of these areas?

[11:37] Jim Harshaw Jr.: We have a tool where you score the prior month. How did you do last month? And it’s color coded. You get a percentage, everything just like in sports. You had a, a win loss record or a scoreboard. Like we have to have that in our lives too. So 30 minutes, minimum 30 minutes where you’re going, okay, okay.

[11:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Here’s what, how he did in that area. And here’s the new micro goal. And you do that with all four areas. You might have five, six, seven, eight goals, you know, multiple goals in some of those areas. And so that’s the minimum effective dose that I believe of a productive pause of a step back, evaluate after action review, what went right?

[12:08] Jim Harshaw Jr.: What went wrong? What do I need to do next time?

[12:11] David Karasek: Awesome. So it’s like,

[12:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: yeah,

[12:12] David Karasek: it’s refocusing, right? Refocusing.

[12:17] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Quick interruption. Hey, if you like what you’re hearing, be sure to get the notes, quotes, and links in the action plan from this episode. Just go to jimharshawjr.com/action. That’s jimharshawjr.com/action to get your free copy of the action plan. Now back to the show. I’m curious, what kind of things did you do with Jim Bauman? Any techniques or tactics? What do you do? Like, you work with a guy like Jim Bauman, who has worked with, obviously, maybe the greatest athlete of all time ever, right?

[12:46] Jim Harshaw Jr.: In anything. Michael Phelps. Like, what does a guy like that do with you during a given session, David?

[12:54] David Karasek: Yeah. So the cool thing was I was literally, you know, like, like you imagined it, I was just sitting on the couch. Right. So I could go even when I was dead beat from training and all that, I love that. And one of the most powerful tools that he’s taught me is just conscious breathing.

[13:09] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Conscious breathing. For the listener, they wanted to hear some revolutionary new technique that no one’s ever heard about before. Just this secret potion that Michael Phelps and David had that nobody else has. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s the basics. Okay. So conscious breathing. Tell me more.

[13:27] David Karasek: You know, the funny thing is, because I saw at the Olympics, man, we had to be at the call room like 30 minutes before, because, you know, there was like a strict TV schedule.

[13:35] David Karasek: They were checking if you’re not wearing any like hidden advertising and stuff. Right. So we had to be there early. And there were three call rooms and I got to the first one. It was really hot. And obviously I was nervous and stuff, but I had the, you know, I had the tools to handle it. But then three minutes later, like Michael Phelps with his headphones, right.

[13:51] David Karasek: And it was like, he walks in and like all the big shots, you know, and I was like looking up to, and I, I got more nervous and Michael Phelps sat down and I see him doing the same breathing thing, you know, like I was using what I learned from Jim and I saw him sitting down doing the exact same thing. It was like, all right, well, cool.

[14:06] David Karasek: Right. And then move to the next call room, did the breathing again. Cause the nervousness, like he kept coming back. Did it again and last. So the breathing is like, one of the things, for example, if somebody, what would be a use case for some of your listeners before a job interview, an important one or a speech?

[14:19] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Job interview, sales presentation, maybe just going into a busy, stressful day at work where they have tons of meetings, you know, big meetings, important meetings. Yeah. That would be a good example. It’s just

[14:30] David Karasek: like when nervousness, like this is how I learned it is how I teach it to my athletes is that.

[14:35] David Karasek: When we get nervous, fearful, worried, right, that range of emotion, the body’s muscle tone changes and the mind gets obviously stressed out. And because what happens is when there’s an actual, so I don’t know if you guys can see it, but there’s, if there was an actual lion showing up in my room, right, I wouldn’t be breathing calmly.

[14:51] David Karasek: I would go breathing up in my chest, my throat would probably start to close in, my heart rate goes up and I fight, flight, or freaks. And so what he taught me was like to first breathe into my belly. Okay. And like an easy, really easy way to do that is you put your hands on your belly button, maybe slightly below it.

[15:07] David Karasek: You exhale completely until there’s no more air in your lungs. And then you just breathe in your belly first before you fill your upper lungs. So you should see how your chest stays the same and your hands come out. It’s like you’re having a Like a soccer ball in your stomach, right? And that signals the body and the mind, Hey, it’s safe.

[15:27] David Karasek: Okay. And then those reactions that we have, you know, the brain will dial it down. Okay. So it’s like four seconds in through the nose, hold it for two and then breathe out on eight and you just like a balloon, you know, you can actually like make like a little bit of a sound and then eight seconds out, hold it for two and do that three times when you have enough time, right?

[15:46] David Karasek: When you don’t have enough time, like in front of the starting block, you just take one breath like that. And it just signals the body. When you feel the lower part of the lungs, which is what we skip when we get nervous, you signal it. Hey, we’re cool.

[15:59] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Wow. Interestingly, about a half an hour after this interview, I am meeting virtually remotely with a, a breathing coach and we’re going to do my first breathing session.

[16:11] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So I’m super excited. Interesting to hear you talk about this and I’m going to be doing this here shortly. Absolutely.

[16:16] David Karasek: I’m sure they’ll have plenty of other tricks up their sleeves, you know, I mean, you can combine it with like breathing in a color that stands for say you want more. More confidence and say you get like confidence is red for you, right?

[16:27] David Karasek: You can breathe in red. There’s things like, I think there’s not one way to do it. But what we do know, and there’s tons of research on that, is that conscious breathing has like, you cannot mess up anything, right? It will benefit your sleep, benefit your immune system. It will benefit anything. Like you cannot mess up.

[16:45] David Karasek: And that’s really good. If something is risk free, so to say, right. And you can only have an upside to it. There’s really like no point not to, not to try it out and be playful with it and, and like reap the benefits of that. And it’s so easy.

[16:58] Jim Harshaw Jr.: There’s not very many things in the world that you can do that have no zero negative consequences.

[17:05] David Karasek: Exactly. And, and those types of really interesting, I think, to like explore and just play around and see what works for you. Because again, you could teach it to someone in three minutes.

[17:17] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Did you do much visualization with Jay Bauman?

[17:21] David Karasek: Yeah. We

[17:21] Jim Harshaw Jr.: did. Any, any tactics or specific ways that he would have you visualize?

[17:25] David Karasek: So like, look, I actually think that I improved that process and I’m sure there’s other people that have it. I just never found it. But like my coach that I have, right. Not right now, right? Is that he takes me through a visualization all the time, guided visualization, and it starts by me walking through a forest.

[17:42] David Karasek: And he’s asking me to build a full sensory perception of what that’s like to walk through a beautiful forest. And, you know, it’s more about like being connected to nature, being creative and all that. And I’ve tried this meditation, laying down, standing, sitting in a yoga position. I tried everything and it was okay.

[17:58] David Karasek: And it worked, but then one day I felt very playful. I kind of made a little bit of room in my office. And I started to actually, when he was saying you’re walking to the force, I actually walk. I wasn’t walking forward because I’m walking to my computer, but I was moving my feet. And with my eyes closed, I would like look up because try that real quick, close your eyes and look around in your room.

[18:17] David Karasek: What you’ll notice. When you look down to your feet, for example, or to your books, does your mind fill in the blank even though you don’t really see? Sure. Right? And so I started to look up and I saw like the branches and the leaves and the birds fly by and then I was like touching a tree. I was using my physical, Movement, you know, I was picking up some soil, smelling it.

[18:38] David Karasek: And I got this really real experience of a visualization. And so I was like, okay, how can we use this for the athletes? And so I have them put on their cap and their goggles. And so I have them smell the chlorine suit. So it’s making it as real as we can. And I think that is, and the kids love it, right?

[18:58] David Karasek: They absolutely just love it. And you know, when they touch the wall, it’s like they do the movement. Some of them go get like gorillas. Yeah. Others just go like a smile and they lay back, whatever the reaction is for them. I want them to have it because it’s much easier to have the emotion when you do like the body posture with it.

[19:14] David Karasek: Have you ever tried that?

[19:15] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I visualize, I still visualize now. And I get up and I walk around my office and I’m pumping my fists and I’m feeling the emotion and I’m getting like, I’m moving my body with it.

[19:23] David Karasek: Okay. So you’re also moving your body. See, okay. So I wasn’t taught that back in the days. Yeah.

[19:30] David Karasek: Neither was I back in the day. So I think that’s a really cool way. It just makes it more visceral for us. I think so.

[19:35] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah.

[19:36] David Karasek: Hey, I have a question. How would you describe visualization to a, like a 10 year old? What is it that we’re doing?

[19:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: It’s a good question. I think I would start by having them visualize something that’s like fun, playful, maybe more like, like going to an amusement park or going to a movie, visualize something, like give them an example, give them an experience of visualization.

[19:58] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And then say, okay, well, that’s visualization. That’s what we’re talking about. You went to a movie, you walked in, you know, your parents bought the ticket and you went and you got popcorn. And then you walked into the movie theater and you found your seat, you sat down, it’s dark, it’s cool. And then the movie screen comes on and you’re laughing.

[20:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Can you picture yourself laughing and try to. Get them to experience that and go, well, that’s visualization. That’s what it is. That was easy to do. Now let’s do it for your sport.

[20:22] David Karasek: Okay,

[20:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: cool.

[20:22] David Karasek: I always, I tell the kids. We’re looking into the future. Isn’t that also true?

[20:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, totally. So, okay, here’s a question for you.

[20:31] Jim Harshaw Jr.: It’s future and then the concept of, of I am making that present, being that person now. I always struggled with, and even through my business career, my professional career in general, I’ve struggled with I want that thing out in the future. Here’s what held me back in competition. And here’s what has held me back.

[20:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And I’m constantly working on this in my mindset now is if I get that thing, if I get onto the podium at the national championships, or if I make a million dollars a year, then I will be that person. As opposed to, no, be that person now, right? It’s in the future, of course, like, uh, not that person now, but like trying to make that future now.

[21:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And because when I make that future now, and I feel like I am that person now, I am the Olympian. I am the all American. I am the million dollar business owner. Then I become that person. I start acting that way. I act as if I’m already that person.

[21:27] David Karasek: The way I look at it is that I think like a really cool thing is that the American culture, the European, the Western culture, like, especially amongst us high achievers, which I’m sure, like, a lot of your listeners probably are, you are, I am, we want to go places, we tend to think, I’ll be happy when, and then we have all these conditions, I’ll be happy, you know, when I have another child, I’ll be happy when the kids are out of the house, be happy when I have the big house, whatever, you know.

[21:55] David Karasek: And happiness, I think people can really understand that I can understand it is that happiness doesn’t come from achieving goals because yeah, they’ll give us happiness for like a day, maybe a week, depending on what it is you buy a new Porsche you’re cool for a month and then you’re like, okay, what am I doing?

[22:10] David Karasek: And so happiness is a choice and it’s in the present moment. Right? And it’s. Not something that we pursue because if we pursue something that means for definition, we don’t have it now or we don’t have it to the level that we want it.

[22:23] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah.

[22:23] David Karasek: And I think that’s, it’s kind of along these lines, right? With everything.

[22:26] David Karasek: It’s like, okay, I’m an Olympian now. And so that’s how I usually try to explain it. But it’s, it’s a tough one.

[22:33] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think a gratitude practice is so important. I think, you know, people talk about it and you hear about it, but I’m actually working with a neuro mindset coach who’s where he works currently with major league baseball, all stars and NHL, uh, one of the best top goalies in the NHL works with him, the process that he’s taught me, it all starts out with gratitude.

[22:56] Jim Harshaw Jr.: I have a gratitude practice where I write down three things I’m grateful for every morning and he takes it. To a much further degree, where it’s Literally five minutes of speaking out loud about what I’m grateful for. So I might have these three things that I write down in my journal, but I then just expound upon those in, in kind of go down whatever rabbit hole it takes me about, I’m grateful for this, and that means this, and that’s because of this.

[23:19] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And I’m also grateful for that. And I go on and it puts me in this profound state of gratitude. Then I go through a visualization process and it’s a really powerful way to start from a place of abundance. A word you used earlier, like a place of abundance as opposed to a place of lack. And it’s, um, I think really critical.

[23:38] David Karasek: Dude, you just gave me a really good idea because I’m going to try this myself. And then when I give it to some, you know, some of my clients, they, um, struggle with falling asleep or in sleeping through the night, even though they’re like teenagers and stuff. Right. So it’s like interesting. And what I gave them, like the exercise before they go to bed, Put their hand on their heart if they want to close their eyes and say three things that they’re grateful for and then give a command to the subconscious that they want to get that they’re going to bed.

[24:05] David Karasek: Now they want to fall asleep quickly and want to sleep through the night and all of them reported better sleep. But I think if we did what you just said, and actually extend it, not just like, all right, let me get the 3 things done. I’d actually do like a profound, like a five minute thing where you like really get in a state how you just described it.

[24:23] David Karasek: I think that command will be a lot more powerful.

[24:26] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. And I think that can even put you to sleep now that I think about it. And I think that would be a something I could, I could use as well. So, you know, I read this quote recently from Roger Federer and he shared that he’s won 80% Of his matches over the course of his career, but only 54 percent of the actual points, he’s won 80 percent of his matches, but only 54 percent of his points.

[24:50] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And so he said on average, I lose every other point. So he, this is his quote. He said, you want to become a master at overcoming hard moments. The best in the world are not the best because they win every point. It’s because they lose again and again and have learned to deal with it. And this is a guy, like I said, on average, he has lost every other point.

[25:13] Jim Harshaw Jr.: How do you help athletes or even business leaders move past a failure, move past a failure, a setback? Maybe they caused it. I screwed up in an interview, or maybe it’s something totally external. How do you help them move past a failure or setback?

[25:32] David Karasek: Man, Jim, I spoke to Roger about that in the Olympic Village.

[25:36] David Karasek: I remember that conversation. And here’s the thing, right? That’s why tennis players are mentally some of the toughest athletes in the world, because exactly what he said, they’re going through to excuse my language all the time, right? They double fall on the serve. The other guy scores a good point. They hit it in that.

[25:52] David Karasek: And I got 10 seconds to walk back to the line and refocus. What a gift with us swimmers and wrestlers, right? We go in a match. We go on a swim meet, we race. We just have a bad time. And the next thing you know, the whole competition went bad because we don’t have that many opportunities where we can learn to refocus after something didn’t go according to plan.

[26:14] David Karasek: It’s like what I read from you is like fail often, you know, just going for it. And what a gift, what a gift to fail. I’m not saying like we wish for failure, but it’s going to, it’s inevitable. It’s going to happen. And then fail and then refocus. And what a gift that, that ability to refocus.

[26:32] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And I think simply knowing that hearing a Roger Federer say something like this, if you can continue to like embed stuff like this into your mind, into your world, into your life, if you’re, you know, listening to interviews like this and listening, you know, reading quotes from a Roger Federer, you go, Oh, okay.

[26:48] Jim Harshaw Jr.: He’s dealt with. Bigger, scarier, harder failures that I have that I just dealt with today because whatever I messed up an interview or a phone call or whatever, he’s dealt with this before. Reset. Let’s go.

[27:02] David Karasek: Also, I think there’s also really interesting research that they did on, you know, like the most successful, like Michael Jordan, right?

[27:09] David Karasek: He scored so many points because he took the most shots. Tom Brady had the most passing yards because he, he passed the ball most often. And that is a mindset thing, right? Where you say, okay, I’m going to be courageous. One of my values is courage because confidence, you know, they say it’s like, it’s like cool confidence you get when you know you can do it.

[27:26] David Karasek: That’s what everybody wants, but really what you need is confidence. It’s like, you make a commitment and then what you need is courage because confidence and courage are kind of similar. It’s just that confidence feels good and courage doesn’t feel good. But it’s the same thing. You do something, you don’t know how to do it and you do it anyway.

[27:41] David Karasek: You go for it. And knowing that it could go wrong. It’s life, dude.

[27:46] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, that’s profound. I mean, and for the listener, what does that mean for you? What does that courage look like for you? Is it courage to step into the ring again, to step into the next sales call or the next conversation? The next tough, difficult conversation you have to have with a direct report of yours.

[28:00] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Didn’t go well last time, or you’re not feeling it today. Do you have the courage to actually step into, you know, to have the tough conversation, to schedule the meeting, to step into that office, to do the thing, to have the tough conversation with your kid or your spouse or whoever it might be. Do you have that courage to, you know, you failed at trying to run a train for a 10K, you know, and, and last time, and you got injured or you just quit, you quit on yourself, you have self doubt about it.

[28:26] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Do you have the courage? It’s not always going to feel good. Do you have the courage to take that next step? To move into that, to step towards that. David, I want to go back and ask you about Roger Federer. What was that like? You met Roger Federer. What was the conversation like? Take us back to that moment.

[28:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You’re like eating dinner. And like, you saw him like getting a candy bar out of the vending machine or what?

[28:47] David Karasek: I don’t think there’s a vending machine in the Olympic village. They did have McDonald’s though, but you know, like people like Ryan Lochte and like they, I think in Beijing he just ate McDonald’s all the time, which is crazy.

[28:58] David Karasek: Right. And he was so good, but Roger, yeah, man, he was visiting the Swiss team, you know, because he was actually staying outside of the Olympic village. Cause they were playing in Wimbledon. It was across, I was in London, okay, 2012. And so that was across the whole. Town or city. So he wasn’t staying there, but he came to like visit.

[29:15] David Karasek: Cause obviously that, you know, like Roger, I don’t think there’s a bigger superstar in Switzerland than Roger. And he was there to like, hang out, take some pictures and stuff. And I just remember, I remember like this focus thing, obviously I was like a bit starstruck. Uh, it’s just really cool to, to meet him.

[29:29] David Karasek: And you know what, the cool thing is he’s so kind and he has such a good memory cause I met him like a couple months later at the airport in like the launch. And he’s like, David, right? But yeah, we talked about focus, you know, about the ability to like refocus and he, I mean, it just made so much sense when he talked about it.

[29:49] David Karasek: And you could just see, like, he’s living proof of that. Right. And he, when you look at how he. Behaved on the court and stuff when he was younger. You wouldn’t think when you see him when he’s older, because he’s well spoken, but like back in the days, it was like a storm.

[30:02] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. He’s angry. He was thrown his racket, everything.

[30:04] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah.

[30:05] David Karasek: Right. And seeing that development, it’s like, it’s very cool to see and to be like in proximity to like an athlete like that. I think that gave me a lot of like motivation and just, you know, like a good feeling. It’s very cool that he came. It’s like, it was, I think I’ll speak for everybody. That was a great experience to have him there and like kind of talk about these things.

[30:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: There’s a lot of listeners who, like you, like me, like you said a minute ago, like we’re going places, we’re driven, we’re going places. We have this athletic mindset and we’re applying that to like our businesses and our lives and career driven and we’re listening to podcasts and reading books and pushing ourselves and setting goals and drive, drive, drive.

[30:43] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Some people feel burned out, right, in their career. Is there a point at which the pursuit of optimization and peak performance can become unhealthy or destructive? Can it contribute to burnout? Or does that mean you’re just doing it wrong?

[30:59] David Karasek: Wow. I don’t know. I would imagine that this is very individual.

[31:03] David Karasek: Like, I can share what I do when, cause I, I got that like drive and I. You know, want to be there already, right? There’s so much to do in the business and stuff. But what I do, I just focus on family time. And this is something that I had to learn, like, actually what my coach did with me, cause I was working, you know, you know, when you have your own business and, or if you’re like a high level corporate executive and stuff, you can work 60, 70, 80 hours, like no problem.

[31:26] David Karasek: And I was doing that right before I had, we had our daughter and my coach was like, okay, that’s, Can’t be like healthy and, you know, I assume he was right. Uh, he can do it for a couple of weeks, but then, you know, not for the long run. And he said, okay, so next week, what I want you to do is I want you to work 30 hours max.

[31:42] David Karasek: So that means if you work five days a week, you got six hours a day. That’s it. And I was like, okay, wow, he’s crazy. How am I going to get all the work done? I’m going to fall behind. Like what are my clients going to say? Right. It’s not going to work out, but I stuck with it, showed some courage and I did the full week.

[31:55] David Karasek: You know, what I found was. The sun was still there in the morning, right? The world was still spinning, it was all good. I found new ways, creative ways, to do what I needed to do, do it quicker, outsource it to involve other people who are actually more capable than I was to do these things. I found a lot of stuff that, Had nothing to do with the vision where I wanted to go.

[32:16] David Karasek: And then I was very, very scared of it. And then I found out what it was all like in my mind. And now I just, you know, take time off, like complete, like I take, take a day off and not don’t look at my phone. And I just hang out with my daughter, with my wife and play.

[32:30] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You know, and the best coaches know in athletics and sports that there has to be rest.

[32:35] Jim Harshaw Jr.: There’s hard days. There’s light days. I was talking with an Olympic champion rower a few days ago, actually a fellow UVA grad, Lindsey Shoup. I’ve had her on the podcast as well. She’s very involved in rowing and training still. And she talks about light, medium, hard days. And I think it just really makes sense, right?

[32:51] Jim Harshaw Jr.: There have to be light days. There have to be days built in where you’re not just pushing. With full effort, right? It just doesn’t work. And you have to have practices, whether it’s the gratitude practice, the breathing practice, things like that, where you’re pulling back and you’re resetting your body physically and mentally so that you’re prepared to perform at your best.

[33:12] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You want to be able to push at a high level consistently. You want to keep bumping up with that sort of minimum thread that what the light day is, right? If you can bump that light day up to what most people might consider hard, but for you, it feels light because you’ve trained yourself. You’re doing all the other, you’re getting good sleep.

[33:28] Jim Harshaw Jr.: You’re eating, right? You’re working out, you’re doing the mindset work, you’re doing the gratitude stuff, you’re doing the breathing. Then you can just get more out of your life, but you do, I think, have to know when to pull back. So David, for the listener who. Loves what they’re hearing from you. They want to take action on something they learned here today.

[33:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: What’s one thing that the listener can do? One action item, one thing they can do in the next 24 to 48 hours to start taking your advice and applying it to their lives. Yeah.

[33:59] David Karasek: I, I want to give the listener something about self talk that I think not a lot of business people use it and you know, there’s negative self talk, which obviously we don’t want, don’t want to engage in.

[34:10] David Karasek: And then there’s. Positive self talk, which is kind of like affirmations, or what do you understand on the positive self talk?

[34:17] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah, positive affirmations, saying the right things. I think, you know, people talk about it. You have a good attitude. Well, where does that start? It starts with words. It starts with self talk.

[34:24] David Karasek: You know, what I noticed, what I observed in myself and with all the clients that I’ve worked, is that positive self talk only works When you have the belief, so when you work a lot and you have the evidence, you work hard and you work a lot, you can do positive self talk about that because you know, this is true.

[34:41] David Karasek: But if you go in an interview and you’re super nervous, for example, and you tell yourself, Oh, there’s no need to be nervous. Like don’t overthink it. It’s okay. Like, it’s like literally if I ask you to not think of a pink elephant, only thing that can happen is you’re thinking of a pink elephant. And I noticed that when I was 18, I just did, I had no confidence and That came out like, especially like with girls, the hotter the girls, the more awkward I became.

[35:05] David Karasek: And like in the movie, sometimes when a guy approaches a girl and you get shut down and it’s like so awkward, you’re like, it makes you cringe. That was me. And I read this book and I was like, okay, just get up in the morning, look in the mirror and tell yourself a hundred times that you’re pretty. And I started doing that.

[35:19] David Karasek: I was like, okay, easy enough. I can do that. Every day I get up, I’m pretty, you’re pretty, you’re pretty, you’re pretty. But what happens is if you’re watching me from the outside or my subconscious is just observing that. And the message that you get is. If you actually felt that way, you wouldn’t be saying it.

[35:34] David Karasek: So, it reinforced the idea that I’m not feeling pretty about myself. So, I didn’t have to believe that I’m pretty, I was just consciously saying it. And it actually made it worse. And that’s why I think, right, a lot of people do positive self talk, but they don’t believe it, so it makes things worse. And so, what I like to do, I think this is a great hack that one of my coaches gave me is like, I just call it self talk.

[35:55] David Karasek: And again, the brain’s job is survival, right? So we’ll look out for dangerous situation where it could get hurt physically or emotionally, like a job interview is emotionally, we could get hurt. And if I had a guard dog at home, I don’t, but let’s say I have a guard dog whose name is Nico. What will Nico do when the doorbell rings?

[36:11] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Bark like crazy and attack, get ready to attack.

[36:14] David Karasek: Right. We’ll go to the door and start barking. And the brain is doing the same thing. You’ll notice, okay, there’s a dangerous, potentially dangerous situation coming up. Like it could be rejected in the interview, or I could mess up and that it will start to bark and with thoughts and feelings like, Oh, am I good enough?

[36:29] David Karasek: Is it going to work out? What are the other candidates? Whatever. Okay. And so it’s just doing its job. The dog’s job is to make me aware there’s somebody at the door. The brain’s job is to make me aware. There’s a potentially potential threat. There’s a situation at where I can get rejected and hurt. So what will Nico do if the doorbell keeps ringing and I ignore him?

[36:47] Jim Harshaw Jr.: He’s going to keep barking. He’s going to keep getting fired up more and more fired up.

[36:50] David Karasek: Maybe

[36:50] Jim Harshaw Jr.: go up to

[36:51] David Karasek: the door and go, right. Well, this pause. And so the brain will do the same thing. It will start to, you know, like these old volume knobs on the radio. It’ll start to, if you ignore it, it’ll start to crank up its volume and the thoughts and the feelings will get heavier.

[37:04] David Karasek: Right. Until we get like a real serious reaction. And so the thing that I can do with Nico is if I just go out without even opening the door and I just let Nico know, Hey, Nico, I hear you. It’s okay. It’s just a neighbor, right? The dog will calm down. And in that moment, it will go back to playing, eating food, whatever he was doing before.

[37:23] David Karasek: And the brain is the exact, exact same thing. It just wants to be heard. And acknowledged because it’s just doing its job, right? So what I do is, and that’s what I call self talk. It’s like, okay, I’ll give you like a personal example. Happened to me last week because a lot of kids and the teenagers, the athletes that I coach, they have their end of summer competition right now.

[37:41] David Karasek: And I’m very happy with my life. I’ve got a daughter, a beautiful wife. I’ve got enough money. I’m healthy. Everybody around me is healthy. I got to be on a cool podcast. Coach people love it. Can’t sleep, go to bed, eyes open, and my mind or my brain decides to start to fire out all cylinders. Okay, David, what if none of these kids swim best times in the summer?

[38:02] David Karasek: What if your stuff doesn’t work? You’ll be found out you’re a fraud. You know, you’re going to lose your entire business. You’re not a good husband. You’re a bad father. Okay, I hear you. I see what you’re doing. You’re just doing your job, making me aware of that. Okay, of the worst case scenario. I see you.

[38:15] David Karasek: And I acknowledge. That the worst case that you’re giving me, that none of them is going to swim the best time, is a possibility. Because is it a possibility? It is, right? It’s a possibility. And I say it’s not what I want, but I acknowledge it’s a possibility. What it is that I want, and I choose to give those kids and athletes everything that I have until the moment they’re done with the competition and beyond.

[38:37] David Karasek: So, I acknowledge the brain, I acknowledge the worst case scenario is a possibility, and then I take a stance and I say what it is that I want. That is self talk grounded in reality. And you know what the crazy thing is, what the brain will do? This is also important. Like, the brain will omit information.

[38:54] David Karasek: Like, the crazy thing is, most of the kids Already had their end of summer competition and almost all of them, like 94 percent of them swam best times, crushed the best times. But my brain decided to omit that information and just look at that last kid that got injured. That’s what the brain does. It’s really important to understand that.

[39:14] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Again, it’s in protection mode. That’s what it’s trained to do, but it’s not helpful. And a lot of times it’s not helpful unless it’s redirected.

[39:21] David Karasek: Right.

[39:21] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So

[39:22] David Karasek: I just think like this is kind of self talk that. If we don’t have the believe installed yet, that is the self talk that will calm the brain down and get rid or minimize the reaction that we have and then we’re cool.

[39:34] David Karasek: Cause the brain is hurt.

[39:37] Jim Harshaw Jr.: Yeah. Such a good action item there. Such a great takeaway and listeners, you got to do something with this now, right? You have to do something with this. This is learning, but you’ve got to apply it. Now, you have a coach, you know, David and I both have coaches. Do you have a coach who’s asking you the hard questions, helping you implement what you learn, helping you do your productive pause.

[39:55] Jim Harshaw Jr.: So you can, you know, step back, identify what is the brain telling me to do in its job. What’s the reality here and then letting you re engage more, more effectively into the world, into your job, David, for the listener, who wants to find you, follow you, et cetera, how do they do that?

[40:10] David Karasek: I’m quite active on social media.

[40:12] David Karasek: So it’s, or I got davidkarasek. com on the website. And otherwise, if you type in David Karasek, usually, cause we’re connected and they’re listening to you already, so then hopefully I’ll come up.

[40:22] Jim Harshaw Jr.: And for the listener, as always, we’ll have all the links to his social media and his website in the action plan, go to jimharshawjr.com/action. David, thanks so much for making time to come on the show.

[40:32] David Karasek: Thank you as well, Jim. It was a pleasure. Good host. Bye. Go Hoos! Wahoo! Go

[40:38] Hoos!

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